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mwaser comments on Yet Another "Rational Approach To Morality & Friendly AI Sequence" - Less Wrong Discussion
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All right, I'll dissect that comment.
Okay: what mistaken assumptions about karma? What false beliefs did you have about karma, and how did they mislead your actions?
Okay: how does what underlying structure explain what apparently irrational behavior?
Okay: And those regularities and assumptions are...?
Okay: and I can find your list of these, and how you misunderstood them, where?
Which takes what form, please?
Such as?
And the process is? The expectations are? The terms mean? The structure/understanding is? What is the mystery you have unraveled here, please show the class.
Do tell. How does it make sense?
And the rules are...?
Ending the dissection here because comments can't be arbitrarily long, and because it's all the same. You throw around words labeling things you supposedly understand without ever describing those things. Over and over and over.
I expect that the error is in using opaque words one can't unpack, hence with very vague intended meaning. Like guessing teacher's password. One thus often remains protected from saying something that doesn't have an interpretation under which it's correct (even if intended interpretation is trivial or wrong).
Okay. So the comment is unclear and incomplete but not unwelcome with a +5 karma). Clearly, I need to slow down and expand, expand, expand. I'm willing to keep fighting with it and do that and learn. Where is an appropriate place to do so?
How about you answer any one of the questions I posed, right here? Take your pick. There's plenty.
Umph! I am really not used to interacting with people mentally skilled enough that I have a really bad case of not knowing what I don't know. I need to fix that.
Good one with the <humility> tags. I'm still recalibrating from it/working through all its implications.
I'm going off to work on one of the questions now.
Could you point to an example please so I can try to evaluate how I implied something so thoroughly against my intent? I certainly don't believe myself above disapproval.
Better to reply to the person you're replying to, not yourself.
I never said I wanted to be safe. Please reread what I said.
Lurking until you truly get what's going on around you is not the most effective (rational) way to learn. I can provide you a boatload of references supporting that if you wish.
Do you really want subpar newbies who will accept such irrationality just to maintain your peace and quiet? Particularly when a playground option is suggested? You could even get volunteers and never deal with the hassle.
Premise: It's more rational for your goals, to just ignore a good rational proposal from an erring, annoying newbie who is trying to provide access to new resources for you (both newbies and structures for their care and feeding).
I just don't get that.
Please taboo "rational". It's generally a good idea for this word.
Edit: Interestingly, exactly the same thing irked Alicorn, apparently independently.
I invite you to try to re-write this comment without the word "rationality" or its cousins.
Is effective a cousin? I suspect so since the easiest way to rewrite it would be to simply replace rational with effective. If not, assume that my rewrite simply does that. If so, can I get a motivation for the request? I'm not sure where you're going or why "cousins" are disallowed.
By "cousins" I meant "rational", "irrational", "rationality", "irrationality", etcetera. "Effective" is not technically a cousin, but any form of search-and-replace would not be in keeping with the spirit of the exercise. Since you are confused, I will go into more detail, but I am nearing the last straw in trying to deal with you and won't extend the courtesy again.
Do you mean: Lurking is slow compared to other strategies, lurking gets worse results for the newbie, lurking is worse for the rest of the community, lurking is inefficient, lurking fails altogether at achieving the objective, or something else?
This is meaningless until you explain the assertion you offer to support.
Nope. That doesn't sound appealing at all. I would rather have zero subpar newbies, and instead of peace and quiet I want lively and productive signal with minimal noise. Also, "such irrationality" is presumptuous. Weren't you going on about how LW is actually governed by structures and rules that you now understand that only look irrational? Where did that go?
Interestingly, your "option" is not so obviously and blindingly brilliant that I could only reject it as the solution to all my problems through sheer bloodymindedness. I don't actually want LW to be attached to a rock-bottom-standards blog with a similar color scheme that purports to funnel newbies into the real deal. I think that would be bad. Yes, even if I never have to look directly at it without a pinhole camera and even if it's minded by volunteers.
If you were demonstrating actual understanding of any relevant concepts... or if you were offering to personally do some work for the site instead of just throwing around vague plans for its expansion and calling it the provision of "access"... or if your proposal were actually good or "rational"... or, I'll admit it, if you weren't so annoying... then you'd be getting a better reception. This is, of course, a counterfactual.
I meant lurking is slow, lurking is inefficient, and a higher probability that it gets worse results for the newbie. I'm not sure which objective is being referred to in that clause. I retract those evaluations as flawed.
Yeah, I made the same mistake twice in a row. First, I didn't get that I didn't get it. Then I "got it" and figured out some obvious stuff -- and didn't even consider that there probably was even more below that which I still didn't get and that I should start looking for (and was an ass about it to boot). What a concept -- I don't know what I don't know.
The playground option was an idiot idea. I actually figured out that I don't want to go there and stagnate before your comment. I've got this horrible mental image of me being that guy that whines in boot camp. Let me take a few days and come up with a good answer to one of your questions (once I've worked this through a bit more).
I'd say thank you and sorry for being an ass but I'm not sure of its appropriateness right now. (Yeah, that <humility> tag is still really messing with me ;-)
ETA: Still re-calibrating. Realizing I'm way too spoiled about obtaining positive feedback . . . . ;-) EDIT: Make that addicted to obtaining positive feedback and less accepting of negative feedback that I don't immediately understand than I prefer to realize (and actually commenting on the first part seems to immediately recurse into hilarity)