You're looking at Less Wrong's discussion board. This includes all posts, including those that haven't been promoted to the front page yet. For more information, see About Less Wrong.

TobyBartels comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 6 - Less Wrong Discussion

6 Post author: Unnamed 27 November 2010 08:25AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (541)

You are viewing a single comment's thread.

Comment author: TobyBartels 09 January 2011 07:19:45AM 2 points [-]

Is there any consistency in which works of speculative fiction exist in MoR (as works of speculative fiction) and which ones actually happened (in some warped way) in MoR?

I had vaguely formed the hypothesis that Harry has read only things that appeared before 1991, so that anything after that is fair game for shout-outs. But I never seriously tested that. Seeing Peter Pevensie in Ch 65 has ruled this out (which means that probably lots of things already ruled it out that I didn't notice or forgot).

So how does it work? If Peter Pevensie was a real person in MoR, does this mean that C.S. Lewis didn't write The Chronicles of Narnia? Does this mean that Lewis didn't have the same influence on Tolkien? Does this mean that the version of The Lord of the Rings that Harry and Dumbledore have read is not quite the same as the version that you and I have read? Where does it all end???

Comment author: thomblake 17 January 2011 08:46:03PM 2 points [-]

I had vaguely formed the hypothesis that Harry has read only things that appeared before 1991, so that anything after that is fair game for shout-outs

Yes, I had the same rough hypothesis and it seems correct when amended with "Except when something else is funnier or more awesome"

Comment author: TobyBartels 17 January 2011 09:34:48PM 2 points [-]

Now we need TVTropes links: Rule of Funny, Rule of Cool (which links to more variations).

Comment author: HonoreDB 09 January 2011 09:41:32AM 0 points [-]

It's not clear. But I would guess that all works of speculative fiction that existed prior to 1991 exist identically in MoR, and some of them are based on actual events.

Comment author: TobyBartels 09 January 2011 10:24:56AM 2 points [-]

That's a pretty big change too then! How did Lewis learn of Peter Pevensie, and how did he ever manage to turn his story into a Christian allegory?

Comment author: HonoreDB 10 January 2011 02:22:45AM 1 point [-]

Oddly enough, this is basically a subplot in The Magicians.

For anything in the Harry Potter 'verse to make sense, we have to assume that some (most!) Muggle fantasy is a distorted account of the actual magical realm. Otherwise we're in Discworld territory, with the causality flowing in the other direction.

In the case of Narnia, the Christian allegory probably was the distortion. The Last Battle would have to have been completely made up, anyway.

Comment author: Desrtopa 11 January 2011 01:03:38AM *  1 point [-]

Maybe what's available of the true account was recorded by Susan. She stopped believing in Aslan after she became a Christian.

Comment author: TobyBartels 11 January 2011 06:37:20AM 0 points [-]

Ironic!

Alternatively, the true account could be what appeared in Omake 3, where Susan presumably never believes in Aslan.

Either way, Lewis becomes a pretty unscrupulous liar. As I'm rather fond of him, I don't like this conclusion, but it's EY's fiction.

Comment author: Nornagest 11 January 2011 07:15:45AM 0 points [-]

Does one account or another have to be distorted? Alternate universes are pretty common in fanfic.