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Eugine_Nier comments on Many of us *are* hit with a baseball once a month. - Less Wrong Discussion

39 Post author: Alexandros 22 December 2010 05:56PM

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Comment author: Eugine_Nier 22 December 2010 10:08:51PM *  4 points [-]

A related more painful, if not quite as frequent, example is the pain of childbirth.

It is interesting to note that the Bible attributed this to collective punishment for Eve's sin but didn't try to explain why it was good for the woman.

Comment author: DanArmak 23 December 2010 12:16:42AM *  4 points [-]

A related more painful, if not quite as frequent, example is the pain of childbirth.

When the first analgesics and techniques for relieving the pain of childbirth became available, in the 19th century, there was a very big movement in Western society against using them. The arguments given were that the pain 1) is natural 2) is God's just punishment. For decades, these analgesics were not used nearly as widely as they might have been.

Incidentally, IIRC, among the biggest opponents of analgesics were midwifes.

It is interesting to note that the Bible attributed this to collective punishment for Eve's sin but didn't try to explain why it was good for the woman.

Why should it be good for the woman? It's a punishment. A punishment is supposed to be bad.

Comment author: Marius 28 December 2010 05:17:16AM 1 point [-]

Punishments are supposed to be rehabilitative.

The thinking today has evolved somewhat, away from thinking the pain of childbirth is a punishment. Yet there is still a widespread tendency (including amongst nonreligious people) to claim that a painful childbirth is a natural childbirth, and to overemphasize and invent dangers of epidurals.

Comment author: Strange7 17 February 2011 04:10:53PM 0 points [-]

The idea of rehabilitation is relatively recent. Punishment is just a disincentive: people who do X get hurt, so don't do X or you'll get hurt.

Comment author: Marius 17 February 2011 05:31:14PM 1 point [-]

Both recent and ancient; people have gone back and forth between rehabilitation/disincentive as punishment's goals for millennia. Look at confession/penance and the theologic justifications for that. Various penalties described in Ancient Rome and the Old Testament filled either or both those roles. We've had phrases like "teach him a lesson," "now, this is for your own good," and "spare the rod, spoil the child" for quite some time.