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TheOtherDave comments on Ben Goertzel on Charity - Less Wrong Discussion

1 Post author: XiXiDu 09 March 2011 04:37PM

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Comment author: TheOtherDave 10 March 2011 09:14:13PM 6 points [-]

(nods) I see.

So, if you were simply skeptical about Yudkowsky/SIAI, you could dismiss them and walk away. But since you're emotionally involved and feel like you have to make it all go away in order to feel better, that's not an option for you.

The problem is, what you're doing isn't going to work for you either. You're just setting yourself up for a rather pointless and bitter conflict.

Surely this isn't a unique condition? I mean, there are plenty of groups out there who will tell you that there are various bad things that might happen if you don't read their book, donate to their organization, etc., etc., and you don't feel the emotional need to make them go away. You simply ignore them, or at least most of them.

How do you do that? Perhaps you can apply the same techniques here.

Comment author: XiXiDu 11 March 2011 09:59:43AM *  0 points [-]

How do you do that? Perhaps you can apply the same techniques here.

I managed to do that with Jehovas Witnesses. I grew up being told that I have to tell people about Jehovas Witnesses so that they will be salvaged. It is my responsibility. But this here is on a much more sophisticated level. It includes all the elements of organized religion mixed up with science and math. Incidentally one of the first posts I read was Why Our Kind Can't Cooperate:

The obvious wrong way to finish this thought is to say, "Let's do what the Raelians do! Let's add some nonsense to this meme!" [...]

When reading that I thought, "Wow, they are openly discussing what they are doing while dismissing it at the same time." That post basically tells the story of how it all started.

So it's probably not a good idea to cultivate a sense of violated entitlement at the thought that some other group, who you think ought to be inferior to you, has more money and followers.

'Probably not' my ass! :-)

The respected leader speaks, and there comes a chorus of pure agreement: if there are any who harbor inward doubts, they keep them to themselves. So all the individual members of the audience see this atmosphere of pure agreement, and they feel more confident in the ideas presented - even if they, personally, harbored inward doubts, why, everyone else seems to agree with it.

Not that you could encounter that here ;-)

Comment author: TheOtherDave 11 March 2011 03:23:31PM 2 points [-]

But this here is on a much more sophisticated level.

It is astonishing how effective it can be to systematize a skill that I learn on a simple problem, and then apply the systematized skill to more sophisticated problems.

So, OK: your goal is to find a way to disconnect emotionally from Less Wrong and from SIAI, and you already have the experience of disconnecting emotionally from the Jehovah's Witnesses. How did you disconnect from them? Was there a particular event that transitioned you, or was it more of a gradual thing? Did it have to do with how they behaved, or with philosophical/intellectual opposition, or discovering a new social context, or something else...?

That sort of thing.

As for Why Our Kind Can't Cooperate, etc. ... (shrug). When I disagree with stuff or have doubts, I say so. Feel free to read through my first few months of comments here, if you want, and you'll see plenty of that. And I see lots of other people doing the same.

I just don't expect anyone to find what I say -- whether in agreement or disagreement -- more than peripherally interesting. It really isn't about me.

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