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wedrifid comments on [LINK] Ethical Pick-Up Artistry (Clarisse Thorn) - Less Wrong Discussion
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A martial artist who is violating the spirit (and pragmatics) that form the core philosophy of most martial arts communities. There is much that can be taken from this analogy.
Yes, but people are inclined to formalism nonetheless.
I'm not sure how formalism relates to the context.
I might be presenting an unfair caricature of how PUAs operate, but it seems to me that by the very virtue of operating within a prescribed formal structure, you're necessarily going to notice some things more than others. And they might be wrong things. And you might stick to form because it's what you have.
If you're constantly engaged because you're trying to develop your own understanding of interpersonal stuff, then you're probably less likely to experience formal blindness.
I understand what you mean by formal now. (Without necessarily agreeing with your prediction of how best to facilitate awareness.)
Let's say you'd never heard of PUArtistry. You're in a bar (or venue of your choice). What are your objectives and how do you meet them?
Right now I don't have any such objectives (and so haven't gone to any bars in a while). You would have to specify what objectives prompted me to go there as part of your counterfactual.
This depends on the aforementioned objectives. For most likely objectives a plan would most likely involve approaching many women, flirting and conversing.
I don't have the faintest idea about how I would do that assuming I had no exposure to bodies of knowledge about how such things work. I suspect very badly. Reinventing the wheel would take huge amounts of effort and be a massive waste of my time.
I'm trying to establish the best way to stay aware of one's authentic needs re: companionship, love, and sex. And how to meet those needs.
Also,
This feels like a gigantic assumption to me.
For me it isn't so much staying aware as it is becoming aware. The journey to self awareness is one of the most important steps to actually getting what you want.
Again for me personally learning about human psychology in general, including human sexual dynamics, was one of the most effective ways of reaching that level of personal and interpersonal awareness. As I learned the theory all the pieces of the puzzle started falling into place. The body of experiences that I had collected from social interactions and observations started fit together and make sense. Like waking up from a dream.
You asked for a prediction about a counterfactual scenario and call my best guess, which was mostly an expression of doubt, a gigantic assumption? That is rather rude.
I swear I meant it in a nice way!
So what do we actually disagree about? You've obviously gone to a great deal of trouble to, as you said, reinvent the wheel. What are you unwilling to do beyond what you've already done, and why?
Maybe a distinction needs to be made between obtaining pure information...
...and the use of technology, e.g. PUA. If it's a technology, we can ask it questions.