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Xachariah comments on Why No Wireheading? - Less Wrong Discussion

16 [deleted] 18 June 2011 11:33PM

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Comment author: Xachariah 20 June 2011 11:23:14PM *  -1 points [-]

(Omega was supplied so that magical scenarios would be possible for the thought experiment.)

My definition vs your definition of death is very enlightening in light of our differences on wireheading.

You view being alive as being able to think, to receive input and experience. I view being alive as being able to act, to change and shape the world. This division cuts through the experience of wireheading; it is the state of thinking without the ability to act. Life to you; death to me. I would venture a guess that anyone who is pro-wireheading would hold your view of life/death while anyone who is anti-wireheading would hold my view of life/death.

You wanted to know why all those other arguments sounded good to everybody, but not to you. We have incompatible priors. There is no sufficiently convincing argument that can cross the gulf between life and death. I do not have sufficient rationalist superpowers to try and change your priors (or even make you want to change them, as I wouldn't want to change mine). But if you wish to understand what other people are thinking as they reject Wireheading, simply close your eyes and try and imagine the choice you would make if you instead believed your time of death were the instant you never acted upon the world again.

They are not being convinced by insufficient arguments. They are merely starting from a different metaphysical position than you.

Comment author: [deleted] 20 June 2011 11:31:09PM 3 points [-]

That doesn't dissolve the problem completely for me, it just moves the confusion from "Why do humans disagree on wireheading?" to "Why do humans have different views on what constitutes death?". Is it just something you memetically pick up and that then dominates your values?

I'd rather assume that the (hypothetical) value difference comes first and we then use this to classify what counts as "dead". "yup, can still get pleasure there, I must be alive" vs. "nope, can't affect the external world, I must be dead".

Comment author: Xachariah 20 June 2011 11:50:18PM 0 points [-]

That is a very interesting question. I'm sure I feel quite as puzzled looking at you from this side as you do looking at me from that side. I would also assume that there is some other first factor.

Sadly, it would be a bit outside of the depth of my understanding of metaphysics (and the scope of this page) to try and discover what it is. Still, I am intrigued about it and will keep thinking on the subject.

Comment author: nazgulnarsil 21 June 2011 02:37:10PM 1 point [-]

unpack "the world" and you'll maybe sympathize with wireheaders more.