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Jayson_Virissimo comments on Transhumanism and Gender Relations - Less Wrong Discussion

7 [deleted] 11 November 2011 01:48AM

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Comment author: Jayson_Virissimo 11 November 2011 02:10:33AM *  7 points [-]

A higher level of egalitarianism between the sexes increases utility.

I haven't looked at the literature in a long time, but I seem to remember there being an inverse relationship between sexual equality and self-reported happiness (particularly among women in developed countries). Is this not true? Of course, even if utility for women decreases it might be made up for by increases in utility for men, but I am unaware of any such phenomenon.

EDIT: I had something like this in mind, but remember it having cross-cultural comparisons, so this probably isn't exactly it.

Comment author: Oligopsony 11 November 2011 01:49:29PM *  4 points [-]

On the other hand, feminist relationships seem to be happier.

If both results hold, it could plausibly be that feminism and unhappiness are both caused by something else at the country-wide level (the collapse of traditional meaning and values, perhaps,) or that feminism improves intimate relationships while worsening other aspects of life (by increasing labor supply, perhaps,) or that feminists make things worse for non-feminists (by not laughing at their rape jokes, perhaps.)

Comment author: Jayson_Virissimo 11 November 2011 02:09:12PM 0 points [-]

Sounds interesting. Thanks for the link.

Comment author: juliawise 13 November 2011 09:18:36PM 4 points [-]

One interpretation is that we're in some kind of awkward middle stage where women are trying to fill multiple roles (perform well at paid job, look hot, take care of the house, raise kids, manage family's health, have a social life, etc.) I know I was raised with the message that it was important for me to be good at all of these things, and I would feel more a failure if I didn't do them all than I think my husband or most men would.

I can imagine that women's satisfaction would increase if role expectations were more egalitarian.

Comment author: [deleted] 11 November 2011 03:31:17AM *  1 point [-]

Even the paper you linked to doesn't claim that equality CAUSES unhappiness. A correlation might exist, but some of the authors' suggestions include:

if happiness is assessed relative to outcomes for one’s reference group, then greater equality may have led more women to compare their outcomes to those of the men around them. In turn, women might find their relative position lower than when their reference group included only women.

or

simply a change in how women answer the question.

(i.e. it's more socially acceptable to claim unhappiness)

Comment author: Jayson_Virissimo 11 November 2011 04:22:12AM 8 points [-]

I didn't mean to suggest that a single, slightly related, research paper demonstrates causation between the two variables, merely that it is a piece of disconfirming evidence for the statement I quoted.

Comment author: beoShaffer 11 November 2011 02:35:06AM -1 points [-]

I was told the exact opposite of that in my Positive Psych class. I remember multiple sources being cited but the only one I could find in the time I'm willing to devote to this conversation was a 2006 gallop poll thats mentioned in "Happiness" by Diener and Biswas-Diener. Anyways the countries that scored highest on happiness tended to also be high in gender equality.

Comment author: Jayson_Virissimo 11 November 2011 04:18:52AM *  2 points [-]

Do you have any way of finding that poll and linking to it? An actual poll would very much outweigh a half-remembered unverifiable source.

Comment author: beoShaffer 11 November 2011 05:37:59AM 0 points [-]

The poll is cited as the 2006 gallop world survey. I'm finding several article that reference it but the full data doesn't appear to be available to the public.