eridu comments on Transhumanism and Gender Relations - Less Wrong Discussion
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I think we will eventually end up in either a genderless society, where the sets of attributes that define gender no longer exist and humans are free to adopt whatever attributes they desire, or in a patriarchal dystopia. The dystopia will come about through "voluntary" changes that will not be explicitly forced, but will be the only option for non-men under patriarchy. The game will be more rigged than it already is.
Feminist theory has held that gender (the set of memes that people with penises behave in certain ways, and people without penises behave in other ways) is both socially constructed and socially enforced. This is accomplished by instilling a great many cached thoughts in humans of both sexes that even most rationalists never question, and then severely punishing the people who transgress those categories in a variety of horrific ways.
One cached thought in the rationalist community that isn't often questioned is that natural selection, rather than higher-level social pressures, cause certain things. If men are attracted to "more feminine" women, that begs the question of what "feminine" even means. Feminine appearance has meant several contradictory things over the course of the last 50 years alone, just as masculine appearance has meant several contradictory things. Who determines what these things are? Where do our images of femininity and masculinity come from? Who do they come from?
The technological promises of transhumanism are meaningless unless we confront and destroy gender. Gender is, as the OP suggests, maintained mostly by men for our own benefit (and to a lesser extent, maintained by women so that men will reward them). Gender socialization is dangerous because it has a hand in determining what we want, even when that is almost certainly not what we want to want.
Many (and probably most) animals also have gender in the sense that individuals with penises behave in certain ways, and individuals with ovaries behave in other ways, despite not having memes.
I'll take it you haven't been paying attention to the discussions of status on OB and LW. In my experience rationalist are much more willing to consider explanations based on social pressure, then feminists are to consider explanations based on natural selection.
In general, it seems strongly that some aspects of gender are social constructs and others or not. The most helpful way of distinguishing them is to look at differences across different societies. If some difference in gender behavior exists in all or almost all societies then the degree of social construction in it is likely to be small. If some gender aspect only exists in some specific times and places then it is a gender construct. Let's look at examples which are relevant to modern society. In the United States, and much of the Western world, it is taken for granted that pink is a feminine color and blue is a masculine color. Indeed, we start this with a very young age, giving clothes of the appropriate colors to infants. Many people in the US consider this to be an obvious universal. But in fact, this color distinction is very modern. However, now consider for example aggressiveness. In pretty much all societies, males are considered to be more violent and aggressive than females.
Aside from looking at other cultures, there are other methods. For example, one can look at children who were genetically male but had surgery at a very young age that made them anatomically female. Even when they are raised as "female" they frequently develop habits, attitudes, and play interests that are considered to be masculine.
So, the upshot is that some aspects of gender are clearly culturally constructed, and that most people probably underestimate how much falls into that category. But the claim that gender as a whole is a pure social construct is empirically wrong.
There are however two huge pitfalls when engaging in this sort of reasoning.
The first is the tendency to conclude that since aspect X of gender apparently doesn't exist in society Y, it is therefore a social construct, and it can be eliminated by changing some particular aspect of the existing society in isolation -- ignoring the possibility that any such change necessarily entails making the society look more similar to Y in other ways, which would be seen as unfavorable even by most people who are negatively disposed towards X per se. This of course sounds like a clear fallacy when spelled out like this, but the fallacy can often be found at the core of many gender-related arguments, and countering it is often impossible without making arguments of the sort "lack of X leads to Y" that sound insensitive and offensive when stated explicitly.
The second is the failure to realize that aspect X of gender can be a stable equilibrium for collective behavior, like driving on the right side. There is nothing (more or less) that objectively favors either the left- or the right-side driving to be the universal rule, and different conventions exist in different places, but this doesn't mean it's a good idea to start telling people that since the direction of traffic is a social convention, they should now choose freely which side to drive on. (This also relates to the first problem, since unlike the direction of traffic, different stable equilibriums in gender-related norms may in fact have far-reaching broader social implications.)
(And all this is even ignoring the common tendency to report information about other societies in distorted and biased manner in service of ideological goals, which introduces further dangers and greatly multiplies the amount of nonsense on this topic that is circulating around, even in prestigious venues.)
Characteristically Burkian.
Not all attributes of gender are transient; not all of the things commonly attributed to one gender or another would be totally gone in a genderless (non-transhumanist) society. But that doesn't mean that the category of gender cleaves thingspace at the natural edges.
This isn't a good experiment unless the people involved have no knowledge of the child's birth sex. Also, as far as I'm aware, there's about one prominent case study describing this, and as such I think it's misleading that you use the word "frequently". The one time I know of this happening, you're right -- the person eventually transitioned back to masculinity. But that's not much to update on.
Sure. This is far from perfect.
I presume that you are thinking of the David Reimer case. While that is the most prominent example it is not the only one. In fact, that case is actually is one of the less useful examples since there were many complicating factors. But there are a variety of other case studies. See, e.g. here.
You think it likely we will end up in a future with what you see as an enormous evil gone, even as most people don't see it that way.
I'm reluctant to update my predictions about the future much based on yours because you have an idiosyncratic prediction that matches an idiosyncratic value system.
Maybe you took steps to avoid thinking something true because you hope it?
As an analogy, imagine you were speaking to someone and they predicted the USA, Canada, and Mexico would become a single political entity before 2100. You might think that very interesting, but if it later was revealed that the person's solution for America's problems was unity with Canada and Mexico, you would probably be skeptical about the prediction and think it might be wishful thinking. The reason you didn't think that at first is because you had never heard that discussed as an ideal or near-utopian scenario (at least I haven't).
I didn't give any distribution for the two option-clusters I outlined. I think it's more likely that we'll end up in a patriarchal dystopia for a variety of reasons. I think that the enlightenment ideas that transhumanism claims to champion are meaningless in a patriarchal context (or a context devoid of feminist analysis).
I think you're being very eager to disagree with me, which isn't unsurprising, since politics etc..