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Vladimir_M comments on Several Topics that May or May Not deserve their own Post - Less Wrong Discussion

7 Post author: EphemeralNight 29 November 2011 01:59AM

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Comment author: Vladimir_M 30 November 2011 04:01:58AM *  0 points [-]

I downvoted this for making self-assured apodictic assertions about difficult and controversial topics, without any supporting argument and in a way that implies that reasonable disagreement is impossible.


[Retracted the second part of the comment, which asserted there was a contradiction between "firmly believ[ing]" and "ambiguous," i.e. not clearly false, evidence. See the discussion below.]

Comment author: Prismattic 30 November 2011 04:12:51AM 1 point [-]

I suspect that native English speakers are much more likely to use the phrase "firmly believe" idiomatically as shorthand for "I have a very high confidence level in," whereas a non-native speaker may take it literally to mean "I place an unshakeable probability of [asymptotically approaching] 1 on".

Comment author: Vladimir_M 30 November 2011 04:18:57AM 0 points [-]

It could be that I'm making this mistake. If a native English speaker (including you, if you are one) can confirm that I am misunderstanding the phrase as expressing a higher degree of certainty than it actually is, I will retract that part of the comment.

Comment author: Prismattic 30 November 2011 04:23:38AM 0 points [-]

I am a native English speaker, and have probably used the phrase idiomatically at some point, but I shall not presume to speak for the author of the post.

Comment author: Vladimir_M 30 November 2011 04:28:44AM 0 points [-]

Looking at the other comments and other examples of the use of the phrase, it does seem like I have made a mistake here, so I am retracting the second part of the comment.

Comment author: TimS 30 November 2011 04:07:29AM 0 points [-]

I read "ambiguous-at-best" as describing the evidence in support of the parental choices.

Comment author: Vladimir_M 30 November 2011 04:13:25AM 1 point [-]

So do I. "Ambiguous-at-best" implies that some of the evidence offered against the proposition is ambiguous, i.e. not provably false. Which in turn implies that believing the proposition firmly is unjustified.

Comment author: TimS 30 November 2011 04:22:06AM 1 point [-]

The language is loose. But in a less atheistic forum, I might say the evidence of God is "ambiguous, at best." I'd never say that evidence against God is ambiguous.

Functionally, it's a politeness-induced vagueness, not intended as a precise statement of the OP's confidence in the state of the evidence. Or so I read it.

And calling people out based on politeness-based vagueness is an aggressive stance that does not appear to be justified in this instance. Particularly since:

making self-assured apodictic assertions about difficult and controversial topics, without any supporting argument and in a way that implies that reasonable disagreement is impossible

is a valid, interesting, and totally independent criticism.

Comment author: Vladimir_M 30 November 2011 04:33:34AM 3 points [-]

Point taken. I retracted that part of the comment.