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cousin_it comments on A model of UDT with a halting oracle - Less Wrong Discussion
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We're not asking the oracle directly about the halting behavior of programs that call the oracle. Instead we're using it as a provability oracle, asking it only questions of the form "if a program exhaustively searches for proofs of such-and-such statement in the formal system S, will it ever terminate?"
Since the statements we're trying to prove, in turn, refer to the behavior of programs that call the oracle, we need S to have some assumptions about the behavior of the oracle. These assumptions can be pretty weak, e.g. the proof in the post seems to go through even if S knows only that the oracle is a pure function that returns identical outputs for identical inputs. Or you could make the assumptions stronger, e.g. formalize the notion of "halting oracle" within S. That wouldn't break anything either, I think.
I see, thanks, that clears it up.
However, now I have an objection to a different step! (which I'm sure you will also address)
Just to clarify, let's say that the first step of A first checks if S proves that A()≠2, and then checks if S proves that A()≠1 (we could do this in either order, it doesn't matter, but this order makes the following explanation make sense better).
S proves that A()≠1. However, S will only be inconsistent if S can also prove that A()=1. To prove that A()=1, S needs to prove that S proves that A()≠1 (does this still make sense?). Furthermore, S needs to prove that S does not prove that A()≠2 (otherwise, A will perversely return 2 before it considers perversely returning 1).
In particular, the statement "S does not prove that A()≠2" implies "S is consistent" and therefore S cannot prove it.
I also have the suspicion that "S proves that A()≠1" is not something S can prove, but my logic-fu is not strong enough to decide one way or the other.
Let's step through the algorithm. If S proves that A()≠2, then A will immediately return 2. That means S has proved a false statement about the universe. If S doesn't prove that A()≠2, but proves that A()≠1, then A will immediately return 1, which also means S has proved a false statement about the universe.
So yeah, I guess calling it a violation of consistency was wrong. It's actually a violation of soundness: all axioms of S must be true statements about the universe. If S is sound, then the above reasoning shows that S cannot prove A()≠a for any a. (Also soundness implies consistency, which might explain why I made the mistake.) Thanks for pointing that out! Edited the post accordingly.
Alright, that makes sense (if my reading of proofs seems uncharitable at times, it is because I know enough about logic to know when a statement doesn't make sense, but I don't know enough to tell what the statement wants to be).
Soundness seems like an interesting property to think about for a formal system. I am reminded of the bizarre systems you can get, e.g., by taking PA and adding the axiom "PA is inconsistent". This, if I recall correctly, is consistent provided PA itself is consistent, but (whether or not it's consistent) it definitely can't be sound.
I want people to read my math uncharitably and poke holes in it, otherwise I wouldn't post :-)