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Incorrect comments on Explained: Gödel's theorem and the Banach-Tarski Paradox - Less Wrong Discussion

10 Post author: XiXiDu 06 January 2012 05:23PM

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Comment author: Incorrect 06 January 2012 06:07:06PM *  2 points [-]

using only volume-preserving transformations

 

which turn out to be immeasurable and escape the volume-preserving property of the transformations

How can both of these be true? Either the transformations always preserve volume or they don't.

Comment author: benelliott 06 January 2012 06:13:01PM 14 points [-]

Roughly speaking the problem is that mathematicians cannot come up with a meaningful definition of volume that applies to all sets of points (when I say cannot, I mean literally impossible, not just that they tried really hard then gave up). Instead, we have a definition that applies to a very large collection of sets of points, but not all of them.

Sets from that collection have a well defined volume, and any transformation which always leaves this unchanged is called volume preserving.

Sets from outside it, which the sets in the Banach Tarski paradox are, don't have a defined volume at all, and thus can interact with volume-preserving transformations in all sorts of weird ways.