You're looking at Less Wrong's discussion board. This includes all posts, including those that haven't been promoted to the front page yet. For more information, see About Less Wrong.

Emile comments on Utopian hope versus reality - Less Wrong Discussion

23 Post author: Mitchell_Porter 11 January 2012 12:55PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (53)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: Emile 11 January 2012 10:03:32PM 6 points [-]

Can you name a change in culture or norms that he would approve of? I'm pretty sure this isn't just a case of eutopia being scary but more a case of "well those paper clip maximizers are warm, healthy and can travel the world, but my value system is practically extinct, so I'm not too pleased with this future".

Maybe only a small minority would recognize that promise as a Utopia, but for them, it'd still be a case of a Utopia that does actually happen. (I'm not sure it would be that small a minority, those who care a lot about abstract principles - nerds like us, religious fanatics, political activists - are a minority)

I find it quite likely that widespread immortality or uploading, or presence of a powerful Friendly AI would severely alter norms and culture, yet I still think those would be mostly good things (though for uploading, I think I'd rather avoid a Hansonian em scenario). Norms adapt as the conditions of life, the economy in the broad sense, change.

Comment author: [deleted] 12 January 2012 07:28:56AM *  4 points [-]

(I'm not sure it would be that small a minority, those who care a lot about abstract principles - nerds like us, religious fanatics, political activists - are a minority)

This is a great point. I'm pretty sure that if people thought about it rationality most would prefer Brave New World to what we have. I don't think I would, precisely because I'm part of the weird group that is pretty attached to some abstract principles. However please note that on average person in the Middle Ages took religion very seriously.

Comment author: endoself 15 January 2012 02:19:31AM 2 points [-]

However please note that on average person in the Middle Ages took religion very seriously.

What is the evidence for that? How do we know about the attitudes of the peasants toward religion?