One case were I'm pretty sure it "worked" and a few with positive feedback but not sure they were real risks.
"For example, I promised one person that if I ever really believed that she were better off dead than alive, I'd assist her suicide, and she found this very comforting. This is not something I would ever recommend saying to a stranger or an acquaintance with whom you are not close."
Now that would be wierd.
"who is in a highly emotional state of mind, far from their most rational" Where is this coming from? As far as I can tell "Suicidal people aren't rational" is mostly meme. Suicidal people aren't operating at anywhere near full capacity is much closer. Of the suicidal folks I've known they've all been less sensitive/more tired rather than emotional. I'll add that it's a harmful meme because it stops people seeking help because they don't think anyone will take them seriously (which is a pretty accurate generalisation.)
Sure, if i think they're an idiot that's likely to be feeling vulnerable (which are unrelated) i'd stay away from anything that could be interpreted as predatory but I don't think this is the rule. Personally I get a predatory vibe from the whole reciting lines rather than talking to people thing.
I think you're missing the fact that he doesn't think he can sound sincere. "like I'm following a bad movie script." Is it not obvious that there's a large class of people who when soliciting advice about suicide don't want to think the person they're talking to is going through the motions?
"But if you're not in a position to predict specific cases in advance, you always want to take the options that maximize your chances."
Yeah but once you're actually there, if the prediction you made in advance was wrong (even if was the best you could have made) drop it.
My default strategy is the above. Otherwise I expect the person I am talking to will feel like I am throwing a wall of protocol up between us. I'd heard this complaint from depressed/suicidal people plenty of times and personally when I was considering suicide I thought it would be pointless to talk to anyone because a) they wouldn't empathise: protocol wall, and I wouldn't be able to bounce ideas off them because they'd be too scared of encouraging me + assume I wasn't rational. Definitely made it worse.
Is your experience of histrionically inclined rather than numbness inclined types? I am very much optimising for the second class because I am only familiar with them and assume they make up the majority of suicidal folks.
"distilled professional expertise" certainly consists of long and fancy words but what does it mean other than "protocol?"
I suppose I might be abnormal in this respect but it works for me, and there seems to be a significant amount of me-like-ness clustered on less wrong so I expect other people could make it work too.
Of the three actual self-terminations I'm familiar with 2/3 were made worse by the not taking them seriously and lack of respect, assumptions of irrationality etc that go with the default strategies and mindset. Specifically the guy on less wrong, and another guy whose suicide note/book you can read if you google two arms and a head. Good read. The third just never talked to anyone which I assume was partially a result of not wanting the usual attitudes people take towards suicidal people though I have no evidence for this other than the people they could have talked to and the fact they didn't.
By the way Suicide isn't the main tragedy of suicide. The life where suicide is an attractive option seems attractive is the tragedy. Tip of the iceberg.
The worst that can happen with this strategy is you don't think of anything. So basically the cost is the oppurtunity cost of not using the other strategy (which might be negative.)
edit: oh and if OP is reading, you can probably train yourself not to fidget and reduce awkwardness and fake or even do extroversion (in decreasing order of importance.
Where is this coming from? As far as I can tell "Suicidal people aren't rational" is mostly meme. Suicidal people aren't operating at anywhere near full capacity is much closer. Of the suicidal folks I've known they've all been less sensitive/more tired rather than emotional. I'll add that it's a harmful meme because it stops people seeking help because they don't think anyone will take them seriously (which is a pretty accurate generalisation.)
It's coming from the word of psychologists who've made depression the focus of their study, from my ...
Last month, two people far at the periphery of my social circles have threatened suicide. Seems like a sign for me to learn some ledge-fu.
I reviewed the stuff I'd learned back in high school ("Listen." "Be supportive." "Don't argue." "Etc etc etc.") I have trouble believing that this would work outside of movieland, especially on strangers. More so, in person I'm an awkward, fidgeting introvert---the impact of everything I say is thus diminished, and I sound very insincere or clinical, like I'm following a bad movie script, when I say anything like, "You are not alone in this. I’m here for you." or "How can I best support you right now?" I doubt that this would sound any better in writing.
I suppose I could split my question into two related ones: what would you say to a person threatening to commit suicide, 1. in person, and 2. in an email?
I'm looking for out-of-the-box ideas that don't rely on charisma or compassion shining through. Personally, if I ever need to talk myself out of suicidal thoughts, I apply the "bum comparison principle": if my life is so crummy that I'm willing to commit suicide, then I should be willing to just walk out on everything I value and drift off in a random direction, survive by dine-and-dashing out of cheap restaurants and wash dishes if I get caught, maybe take odd jobs or hitchhike or gather roots and berries or blog from public libraries. I don't see this possibility in a negative light, and yet I still haven't done it. To me, it means that however bad my life may seem, I'm still too attached to it to walk out; therefore, suicide isn't on the menu.
People have different reasons to want suicide, and I understand that what works for me with my first world problems probably won't work for a person who is in too much physical pain from an incurable disease. To the best of my knowledge, the two people I mentioned earlier are both unskilled laborers who had lost their jobs, one of them so long ago that he's no longer eligible for unemployment benefits. I don't think I'll meet these particular people again, but I'd appreciate everyone's thoughts on what I could've said if my brain hadn't frozen.