Poly-linguals keep claiming that Sapir-Whorf is really true.
Overgeneralization. I do not know how many languages does one need to know to be considered polylingual, but if 6 is enough, then let me say this:
Yes, some concepts are carved differently in different languages, and it feels... strange... when one encounters this for the first time. Sometimes it is kind of scary when you realize that you can express a concept in a foreign language, but there are no words in your native language that would describe it with equal power, and you can only use a sentence or two to describe what in the other language you could have said directly by using one word, or just slightly modifying an inflection.
This effect is often exaggerated ad absurdum, probably because it is useful for some theories or even politically ("if we could make people use different words, we could build a perfect society") and for polylinguals it is good for signalling ("man, I speak foreign languages, and it totally gave me magical powers"). I predict that this effect is stronger in predominantly monolingual societies.
As an example, it is often said that people would be less sexist if they stop using words "he" and "she", and find some gender-neutral pronoun. If you believe this, you should go to Hungary, because in Hungarian language there is no word for "he" or "she", there is only a gender-neutral pronoun... but the Hungarian society is more or less the same as in surrounding countries. So I consider this theory experimentally disproved on sample of millions of people -- and yet I predict that most LW-ers will not update zir / eir / vis / shklir opinion on this.
Also, there is a question of how many time should one invest to these polylingual insights. Let's say that after 2000 hours of study of foreign languages you have found dozen occasions where the wordspace is divided differently in different languages. Should you invest another 2000 hours to find another dozen examples? You will probably hit diminishing returns, because languages are similar, they evolved from each other. What is the cost/benefit analysis of this? If I tell you that in Russian there is no word for "blue", only words for "dark blue" and "light blue", how much enlightened do you feel? How many hours of your time would you like to pay for this mystical knowledge?
Learning languages is good if you want to communicate with other people. And as a side-effect it gives you a few insights, but if your goal are only the insights, then you can use your time much better.
EDIT: And to be less of a hypocrite, I admit that learning languages can also be a beautiful hobby. But there is no need to rationalize it by pretending it gives you more that it does.
Absolutely agreed, as far as it goes.
That said, once a linguistic structure has been culturally associated (however arbitrarily) to a particular ideological position, using that linguistic structure within that culture signals (however inaccurately) one's association with that position. For example, the signaling effects of using gendered and ungendered pronouns are more or less independent of the social-engineering effects of those pronouns.
And, of course, signaling choices have social-engineering effects of their own. My using, or not using, linguistic ...
This morning I read an interesting post on the future of education. I thought it would be interesting to have some members of LessWrong discuss it. I know it is idealistic, but some of the points raised were interesting.
Thoughts? Comments?