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pedanterrific comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 12 - Less Wrong Discussion

5 Post author: Xachariah 25 March 2012 11:01AM

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Comment author: pedanterrific 26 March 2012 12:58:09AM *  28 points [-]

Let's discuss Dementors. I was surprised to learn that a lot of people came away from TSPE believing in Harry's initial hypothesis, that Dementors had no minds of their own and were controlled by the expectations of the people nearest them. To me, this seemed conclusively disproved by something Harry isn't aware of: the fact that the dozen Dementors he scared away went back to their hundred-plus brethren in the central pit and thereafter all of them refused to tell the Aurors where Harry was, despite the fact that there were quite a lot of Aurors believing very strongly that they would.

If there's something I'm missing that rescues this hypothesis, I'd appreciate it being pointed out. At this point, I have to believe that whatever ritual (or possibly "law of magic", if we believe Harry) creates Dementors also imbues them with at least some independent decision-making ability, and that they have goals which include 'continuing to exist'.

Comment author: aladner 26 March 2012 01:39:38AM 1 point [-]

That was my impression as well. This means that Harry could order the dementor to do pretty much anything. All he'd really have to do is demonstrate that he can command them and he'd open up several options. Of course, all of this depends on Harry knowing that the dementors aren't controlled only by the expectations of those around them.

Comment author: pleeppleep 26 March 2012 08:01:14PM 0 points [-]

Dementors as everyone but Harry sees them are more or less illusions created by a wizard's subconscious, but they are not limited to a person's expectations. They can react to stimulus, possibly in ways similar to organic life, but any displays of sapience are created in the minds of onlookers. As such there is no possible way that dementors could ever relay information to someone not already in possession of the knowledge.

Comment author: pedanterrific 26 March 2012 08:07:04PM *  9 points [-]

As such there is no possible way that dementors could ever relay information to someone not already in possession of the knowledge.

Guess that idea is wrong, then.

Auror Li and Auror McCusker had rearranged their chairs around the table, and so they both saw it at the same time, the naked, skeletally thin horror rising up to hover outside the window, the headache already hitting them from seeing it.

They both heard the voice, like a long-dead corpse had spoken words and those words themselves had aged and died.

The Dementor's speech hurt their ears as it said, "Bellatrix Black is out of her cell."

There was a split second of horrified silence, and then Li tore out of his chair, heading for the communicator to call in reinforcements from the Ministry, even as McCusker grabbed his mirror and started frantically trying to raise the three Aurors who'd gone on patrol.

Comment author: pleeppleep 27 March 2012 12:26:14AM 1 point [-]

Huh, didn't remember that. Guess you win that one.

Comment author: pedanterrific 27 March 2012 04:46:02AM 11 points [-]

I generally prefer to think of determining the truth as a cooperative endeavor, but thanks?

Comment author: pleeppleep 27 March 2012 11:47:49PM 5 points [-]

Good point. I suppose it would've been more accurate to have said "I win" since I was the one to update beliefs.

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