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moridinamael comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 12 - Less Wrong Discussion

5 Post author: Xachariah 25 March 2012 11:01AM

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Comment author: moridinamael 26 March 2012 02:25:31PM 10 points [-]

Agreed. The option that seems clearest to me is to Lose, not to escalate. It's the first Potions class all over again, with Harry offering to sacrifice his humanity and the political stability of the country for Hermione's comfort.

If Harry loses well enough, he may even win.

Comment author: Normal_Anomaly 27 March 2012 05:20:22PM *  2 points [-]

Harry may lose in the sense of failing to keep Hermione out of Azkaban, but I doubt he'll choose to lose. The lesson of the first potions class was not to get caught in a status/dominance fight at the cost of important goals. The lesson on losing in the Battle Magic class added "how to pretend you've lost without giving up any important goals." Losing in this case does not mean sacrificing "Hermione's comfort," it means letting his best friend die slowly.

The line about seeing the Wizengamot as PCs vs. as wallpaper and the final lines about Harry's knowledge of wizarding laws and culture suggest that Harry's solution is going to fall within the law and custom of wizarding society. Harry has already decided to undermine the political stability of the country because he objects to said country on moral grounds, but he won't do it now because it isn't time yet. As for sacrificing his humanity, I wouldn't want to bet on his ability to stay human with Hermione dying in Azkaban.

Comment author: Benquo 26 March 2012 04:09:48PM 2 points [-]

Losing and begging sounds far superior to most of the other options considered; the prospects for success may not be greater, but the loss if he fails is little.

Unfortunately he's gone Dark, and his dark side doesn't seem to know how to lose.

Comment author: pedanterrific 26 March 2012 04:37:56PM 4 points [-]

No, I think it learned that lesson:

So instead Harry looked at the older Slytherins, who still seemed to be in a state of shock. They stared back at him. Dread was on their faces.

His dark side, when it was in control, had held to the imagination of this moment, and went on pretending to lose.

Harry said, "No one will -"

Comment author: linkhyrule5 26 March 2012 07:45:39PM 0 points [-]

That said, losing leads directly to Hermione in Azkaban...

Comment author: drnickbone 26 March 2012 08:34:50PM 1 point [-]

I'm coming to the conclusion that Harry will lose, at least this time.

The only other "clever" thought I had was that he could zap the Dementor, explain how he did it, cause the entire Wizengamot to lose their Patronus, and then force them into Obliviating themselves (and the result of the trial vote) in order to get their power back. Very dramatic, but then what?

How exactly can he change the vote... can he force them to memory-charm each other to believe they've acquitted Hermione, because if they don't, he'll destroy the next Dementor, and keep on with the Groundhog Day effect until they get it right? Seem pretty unlikely.

Given that the vote is already happening, and there is a clear majority in favour of Azkaban, there doesn't seem to be any way he can avoid losing except for such Groundhog Day tricks. His dark side will probably come up with a solution (e.g. pinning the blame on Dumbledore or Quirrell) but too late, and that leads us into the rest of the arc. And I'm guessing we won't find the solution tomorrow either... another cliff-hanger.

Comment author: smk 27 March 2012 04:13:12AM 4 points [-]

Many of those in attendance probably can't cast a Patronus anyway, so they wouldn't have any reason to Obliviate themselves to get back what they never had.

Comment author: DanArmak 27 March 2012 09:28:33PM 3 points [-]

While in Azkaban, his light side also thought very emphatically that "losing was for House points, not for people".