You're looking at Less Wrong's discussion board. This includes all posts, including those that haven't been promoted to the front page yet. For more information, see About Less Wrong.

Daniel_Starr comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 12 - Less Wrong Discussion

5 Post author: Xachariah 25 March 2012 11:01AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Article Navigation

Comments (692)
Tags: hpmor harry_potter fanfiction fiction

Comments (692)

You are viewing a single comment's thread.

Comment author: Daniel_Starr 27 March 2012 01:14:59AM *  27 points [-]

Hypothesis:

Quirrellmort intends to upload his mind into Harry's body soon, as soon as Harry is Dark enough. Voldemort will become the Boy-Who-Lived. And Quirrellmort wants or needs this to happen within the next few months.

Evidence:

If Quirrellmort were only after the Philosopher's Stone and training Harry for a long career, he'd keep his own cover intact as long as he could. Instead, over the last few story months, Quirrellmort has cheerfully all but ruined his cover in favor of giving Harry chances to turn Dark.

  • Quirrellmort got the Dementor brought to Hogwarts, waited until the last moment to observe Harry's wand by the Dementor's cage, gave wrong advice about how to help Harry recover from the Dementor-induced personality change, and persuaded the other wizards to let Harry face the Dementor again.
  • Quirrellmort took Harry to Azkaban soon after seeing Patronus 2.0, leading to more Dementor contact and the recovery of Bellatrix, Quirrellmort's preferred assistant for critical tasks (like, say, ritual magic to download yourself into your Horcrux's body).
  • Quirrellmort (as H&C) set up Hermione for Draco's attempted murder, thus both cutting off Harry from the person who's his best influence against being Dark, and motivating Harry to embrace his Dark side more in order to rescue or avenge Hermione.

The first stunt made Dumbledore suspect a plot, the second showed that Voldemort had returned, the third that Voldemort was in Hogwarts. But it's all been worth it to Quirrellmort to hurry up Dark!Harry. Why?

Perhaps because Quirrellmort is running out of time in his current body.

  • On the day he killed Rita Skeeter, she observed Quirrellmort had his hair falling out.
  • Harry has noticed Quirrell looking visibly older.
  • The curse on the Defense against the Dark Arts position demands a terrible conclusion to his year - or at least the appearance of one.

And if Quirrellmort doesn't intend to be around as Quirrell much longer, what does he intend? We have clues.

  • We know from the prophecy that Quirrellmort and Harry can destroy each other's spirits.
  • Quirrellmort has said that Harry's sense of doom between them is precisely of Harry's doom.
  • We suspect from canon combined with "Dark Harry" moments that Harry is an accidental Horcrux containing a partial copy of Voldemort's mental circuitry, and possibly some of his power too.
  • Quirrellmort suggested a plan where Harry would be seen to fight the returned Voldemort and defeat him.

The obvious answer is that Quirrellmort intends just the plan he told Harry: Harry will indeed be seen to fight Voldemort and "defeat" him. And "Quirrell" will die, probably having been revealed to be Voldemort. But Quirrellmort... will have downloaded himself into Harry's mind, and so will win the duel he seems to lose.

Just as before, a single clash of spells between Voldemort and Harry Potter will lead to the destruction of "Voldemort"(Quirrell.) And "Harry" will walk away triumphant. But "Harry" won't be Harry any more.

If Quirrellmort's plan succeeds, Harry as we know him will cease to exist. Voldemort will go on in triumph -- as Harry Potter, the boy who destroyed Voldemort twice over. Harry will be the beloved hero of magical Britain -- and Voldemort inside.

I suggest Quirrellmort's top priority is to turn Harry fully Dark before the end of the year, so he can safely download into Harry.

Comment author: loserthree 28 March 2012 03:05:05PM *  3 points [-]

I only mean to add credibility to your theory when I say that it has been plausible for seventeen months: scroll down to 10/8/10

The author said in an early Author's Note (I think) that someone he knew guessed the main plot from only the mysterious prelude. I'm guessing that person has some special insight that allowed them to just to the right conclusion, probably insight into the kind of story the author would right, possibly based on things that person had recently talked about with the author.

Comment author: DanArmak 27 March 2012 09:02:53PM 1 point [-]

On the day he killed Rita Skeeter, she observed Quirrellmort had his hair falling out.

She didn't observe it falling out at that moment. Just that he was balding, as we've known from his first appearance and description.

This could just be natural - some people go bald very early - but probably has some significance. The bald spot is located, presumably, where the canon Quirrelmort had Voldemort's face hidden under a turban. This may just be a reference to that fact, with the intended explanation being that smart!Quirrelmort wouldn't make a stupid mistake like that, but there is still some mark of possession there.

Harry has noticed Quirrell looking visibly older.

That was after the Azkaban affair, during which Quirrel was hurt by the magic-clash, by nearness to Dementors, and by total magical exhaustion. Maybe it was so bad that it literally "took years off his life", maybe because Voldemort doesn't care to maintain the Quirrel body in the best possible order if he can squeeze out more power. Which supports your theory, but is not a case of "he has little time remaining in this body".

The curse on the Defense against the Dark Arts position demands a terrible conclusion to his year - or at least the appearance of one.

The curse placed by Voldemort, as revenge for not being made the Defense Professor, surely wouldn't operate against Voldemort when he finally did get the position. That would be far too stupid of him.

Comment author: Alsadius 28 March 2012 01:51:57AM 5 points [-]

Disagree. Breaking the pattern after this many decades right when some creepy dude who openly calls himself evil and encourages children to be Dark Lords gets the job seems like it might as well be hanging a neon sign over your head saying "I'm the Big Bad!".

Comment author: Paulovsk 27 March 2012 02:08:40AM 1 point [-]

Harry as we know him will cease to exist. Voldemort will go on in triumph -- as Harry Potter, the boy who destroyed Voldemort twice over. Harry will be the beloved hero of magical Britain -- and Voldemort inside.

Very structured, but... a sad end? Harry, the almost ratinalist, losing? This seems odd.

Comment author: Alejandro1 27 March 2012 04:17:21AM 12 points [-]

This may be Quirrell's plan, even if Eliezer intends for Harry to defeat it in some way.

Comment author: buybuydandavis 27 March 2012 07:56:30AM 3 points [-]

Yeah, I assume Harry wins in the end, but I expect EY to give Voldemort a better plan than "expose yourself and all your forces in a mass battle at Hogwarts, though you've been successful until then through secrecy, stealth, and terror".

Comment author: DanArmak 27 March 2012 08:56:50PM 0 points [-]

I would like to hope that Eliezer has a surprise in store for anyone who just assumes Harry will win in the end, because he's the protagonist and hero.

Truth isn't that convenient, and rationality (Harry-style) is about facing the truth.

Comment author: buybuydandavis 27 March 2012 10:32:23PM *  1 point [-]

Unless he's writing this as a cautionary tale about unfriendly AI, I expect Mr. Glowy Person to win in the end, even if "The End" is projected beyond the end of the book.

And even if you do end me before I end you, Another will take my place, and another, Until the wound in the world is healed at last...

Comment author: thomblake 27 March 2012 07:21:45PM *  5 points [-]

Very structured, but... a sad end? Harry, the almost ratinalist, losing? This seems odd.

I've been torn on how probable I think this outcome is, but I wouldn't put it past Eliezer. This is the person who thinks bad end is the default end for humanity, and the universe isn't fair, and bad things are allowed to happen. Even if you work really hard to stop them.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 29 March 2012 12:32:54AM *  0 points [-]

That's a plausible plan, anyway. I'm guessing that the current plan might also involve taking over the rest of the magical world, and then the muggle world, a goal that might not have been originally desired or seen immediately feasible, but which acting as Harry could facilitate. Ch. 20 provides a possible motive (prevention of technological existential risks; Riddle is rational enough to notice that comfortable immortality requires as a necessary condition that the world is not destroyed):

"Those fool Muggles will kill us all someday!" Professor Quirrell's voice had grown louder. "They will end it! End all of it!"

Harry was feeling a bit lost here. "What are we talking about here, nuclear weapons?"

"Yes, nuclear weapons!" Professor Quirrell was almost shouting now. "Even He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named never used those, perhaps because he didn't want to rule over a heap of ash! They never should have been made! And it will only get worse with time!" Professor Quirrell was standing up straight instead of leaning on his desk. "There are gates you do not open, there are seals you do not breach! The fools who can't resist meddling are killed by the lesser perils early on, and the survivors all know that there are secrets you do not share with anyone who lacks the intelligence and the discipline to discover them for themselves! Every powerful wizard knows that! Even the most terrible Dark Wizards know that! And those idiot Muggles can't seem to figure it out! The eager little fools who discovered the secret of nuclear weapons didn't keep it to themselves, they told their fool politicians and now we must live under the constant threat of annihilation!"

Powered by Reddit Powered by Reddit