Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 13, chapter 81

bogdanb

9 Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 13, chapter 81

27th Mar 2012

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This is a new thread to discuss Eliezer Yudkowsky’s Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality and anything related to it. This thread is intended for discussing chapter 81, which should be published later today. The previous thread passed 400 comments as of the time of this writing, so it will pass 500 comments soon after the next chapter is posted, if not before. I suggest refraining from commenting here until chapter 81 is posted; comment in the 12th thread until you read chapter 81. After chapter 81 is posted, I suggest all discussion of previous guesses be kept here, with links to comments in the previous thread.

There is now a site dedicated to the story at hpmor.com, which is now the place to go to find the authors notes and all sorts of other goodies. AdeleneDawner has kept an archive of Author’s Notes. (This goes up to the notes for chapter 76, and is now not updating. The authors notes from chapter 77 onwards are on hpmor.com.) When posted, chapter 81 should appear here.

The first 5 discussion threads are on the main page under the harry_potter tag. Threads 6 and on (including this one) are in the discussion section using its separate tag system. Also: one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight,nine, ten, eleven, twelve.

As a reminder, it’s often useful to start your comment by indicating which chapter you are commenting on.

Spoiler Warning: this thread is full of spoilers. With few exceptions, spoilers for MOR and canon are fair game to post, without warning or rot13. More specifically:

You do not need to rot13 anything about HP:MoR or the original Harry Potter series unless you are posting insider information from Eliezer Yudkowsky which is not supposed to be publicly available (which includes public statements by Eliezer that have been retracted).

If there is evidence for X in MOR and/or canon then it’s fine to post about X without rot13, even if you also have heard privately from Eliezer that X is true. But you should not post that “Eliezer said X is true” unless you use rot13.

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Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 13, chapter 81 — LessWrong

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kilobug14y20

I'm wondering why Lucius tried to get out of the deal.

If Harry is Voldemort in hiding, he should guess that Harrymort needs Hermione for something (a dark ritual perhaps ?) and shouldn't get out of the deal.

If Harry isn't Voldemort in hiding, then Lucius would get two benefits in one : a payment of the blood debt he has towards House Potter (which could cost him a lot in the game of politics), and a debt from the Boy-Who-Lived, which could grant him a lot in the same game. And lots of money in addition, which is always a good thing to have.

I know that Draco is "his only weakness", but Draco didn't suffer any permanent harm. So he shouldn't be so upset to give up such a political advantage just to send Hermione to Azkaban, which doesn't bring him much. I don't get how a cunning Slytherin like him can discard such an advantage for pure vengeance over an "attempt" which didn't do any real harm.

Edit : I forgot to add : also, trying to get back on his offer on mere technicality in front of the whole Wizengamot damages the honour of House Malfoy, that's an additional cost to his attempt.

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ArisKatsaris14y100

I'm wondering why Lucius tried to get out of the deal.

I see it as a status game. Previously Lucius had suggested that Dumbledore take Hermione's place in Azkaban, not because Lucius thought there was much of a chance that Dumbledore accept this offer, but rather to strike at the idea of Dumbledore's supposed heroic altruism.

Now when Lucius named 100,000 galleons as the price to erase the debt, he was trying a similar tactic -- Lucius didn't expect that Harry accept this, Lucius wanted to strike at the idea of his enemies being heroic and altruistic.

But ... (read more)

5Alsadius14y

Someone tried to murder his son, and all he got for it was a bit of cash. As if he gives a damn about cash. I can't imagine anyone, rich or poor, who'd say "A fat stack of bills and clearing an old favour, in exchange for attempting to murder my child? Sure, sounds fair!". I'd be throwing around terms like "sociopath" if anyone was actually okay with that(whether or not it's the proper psychological term).

22alex_zag_al14y

I've seen a few variations on "why does Lucius prefer vengeance to maintaining/expanding his political power?" First of all, for someone like Lucius, what's the point of power if you can't get stuff you want, like vengeance for your family members? Like how it's pointless to save if you're never going to spend. And second, something that's on my mind because I just finished The Origins of Virtue by Matt Ridley. Emotions like vengeance evolved for a reason. Harry sees it as a weakness of Lucius's that he would give up anything politically to avenge his son. And it's true, that can be manipulated by people who want to see him lose his political power. However, it is also a powerful deterrent to his enemies. If Lucius is publically known as someone who would stop at nothing to avenge his family, then those that would provoke him will be few and far between, and he will probably not have to make the sacrifices that his vengefulness commits him to. When he accused Dumbledore in public of the murder of his wife, even at political cost, I'm sure everyone got the message: "if I hurt Malfoy's family, even if I make sure it would be very politically costly for him to pursue me for it, he will pursue me for it anyway." And this was a protection to his family. Malfoy never got his vengeance for Narcissa, but Dumbledore is the most powerful wizard alive; everyone knows that they could not get away with what Dumbledore did (I'm describing this from Lucius's perspective; I'm not committing to a judgment on Dumbledore's guilt). But if he let Hermione Granger get away with an attack on his family, that's a different thing entirely. If Hermione Granger, a child and, by birth, a second-class citizen in wizard society, can get away with an attack on Malfoy's family because of all the benefits you pointed out to taking Harry's deal, then maybe I can get away with an attack on Malfoy's family because of something like that. Lucius is making sure that the class of people who can get aw

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