Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 14, chapter 82

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12 Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 14, chapter 82

by FAWS

4th Apr 2012

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The new discussion thread (part 15) is here.

This is a new thread to discuss Eliezer Yudkowsky’s Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality and anything related to it. This thread is intended for discussing chapter 82. The previous thread passed 1000 comments as of the time of this writing, and so has long passed 500. Comment in the 13th thread until you read chapter 82.

There is now a site dedicated to the story at hpmor.com, which is now the place to go to find the authors notes and all sorts of other goodies. AdeleneDawner has kept an archive of Author’s Notes. (This goes up to the notes for chapter 76, and is now not updating. The authors notes from chapter 77 onwards are on hpmor.com.)

The first 5 discussion threads are on the main page under the harry_potter tag. Threads 6 and on (including this one) are in the discussion section using its separate tag system. Also: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13.

As a reminder, it’s often useful to start your comment by indicating which chapter you are commenting on.

Spoiler Warning: this thread is full of spoilers. With few exceptions, spoilers for MOR and canon are fair game to post, without warning or rot13. More specifically:

You do not need to rot13 anything about HP:MoR or the original Harry Potter series unless you are posting insider information from Eliezer Yudkowsky which is not supposed to be publicly available (which includes public statements by Eliezer that have been retracted).

If there is evidence for X in MOR and/or canon then it’s fine to post about X without rot13, even if you also have heard privately from Eliezer that X is true. But you should not post that “Eliezer said X is true” unless you use rot13.

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Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 14, chapter 82 — LessWrong

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ArisKatsaris14y200

I don't think Harry's promises work like that, he seemed very earnest about them.

The thing that still gives Harry some room to maneuver is that he still doesn't know if Narcissa Malfoy was burned alive, or if Dumbledore just arranged it to appear that she was burned alive. This was one of the explicitly declared conditions, that if she wasn't burned alive, Harry will get to decide by himself whether to still go ahead with the pledge or not.

And there's also the secondary possibility that she was burned alive, but that it wasn't Dumbledore who arranged it to happen, he just took credit for it afterwards to serve his purpose of protecting the families of the Order of the Phoenix.

TimS14y00

If Dumbledore endorsed the burning-alive (even after the fact), then I think Harry's promise requires him to take Dumbledore as an enemy.

That said, I'm not sure that D has endorsed the act, so much as declined to shoot an ally - which isn't quite the same moral position. (Or is it? Have to think about that).

5BarbaraB14y

"And there's also the secondary possibility that she was burned alive, but that it wasn't Dumbledore who arranged it to happen, he just took credit for it afterwards to serve his purpose of protecting the families of the Order of the Phoenix." Exactly. Similar mechanism as in "Breaking bad" TV series. The legend, that Jesse Pinkman crushed the non-payer Spooge with the ATM machine improved the payment discipline of other customers. Even though Jesse, in fact, did not do that and would never be able of doing it. I thing it is more likely, that Dumbledore took credit for the murder rather than actually committing it. A premeditated, exemplary murder of innocent women seems too unprobable and OOC for a "light" character. The only think that makes me uncertain about Dumbledore innocence is this part of chapter 80: When Lucius Malfoy spoke again his voice seemed to tremble ever so slightly, as though the stern control on it was failing. "Blood calls for repayment, the blood of my family. Not for any price will I sell the blood debt owed my son. You would not understand that, who never had love or child of your own. Still, there is more than one debt owed to House Malfoy, and I think that my son, if he stood among us, would rather be repaid for his mother's blood than for his own. Confess your own crime to the Wizengamot, as you confessed it to me, and I shall -" "Don't even think about it, Albus," said the stern old witch who had spoken before.

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