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pedanterrific comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 15, chapter 84 - Less Wrong Discussion

3 Post author: FAWS 11 April 2012 03:39AM

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Comment author: Vaniver 11 April 2012 04:25:54AM *  6 points [-]

So, it seems more likely that Quirrel was behind the plot.

The thing about there only being seven houses seems big, though, and as far I can tell isn't from canon. (The list of purebloods, for example, doesn't include Jugson, though 500 years old might not be enough to be Most Ancient. I think we have HPMOR confirmation of Malfoy, Potter, Greengrass, and Longbottom, and I think in canon the only ones that get that description are Malfoy, Black, and maybe Potter (really, Peverell).

The 1926 hint narrows it down to four canon characters (though, of course, Bones might be mistaken). Interestingly enough, all of them were sorted into Slytherin- Tom Riddle, Rosier, Avery, and Lestrange. All of them were Death Eaters, and so it seems most likely it's Tom Riddle. (He would be the last of the female line of the Gaunt family, descended from Salazar Slytherin, which seems like it qualifies for Most Ancient. But I suspect the female line doesn't count for things like the Wizengamot, in canon at least.)

(Interestingly, in canon, Morfin Gaunt was memory-charmed to believe that he was the murderer of Voldemort's parents. Riddle did that to cover up a number of his murders. Even more pieces falling into place.)

Tom Riddle as hero seems... really bizarre, though. Who was Voldemort instead? (It seems implausible that Voldemort could have been an alterego; I suspect quite a bit of his pureblood support came from his lineage.)

Comment author: pedanterrific 11 April 2012 04:30:31AM 2 points [-]

My hypothesis is stated here, by the way- the thread goes on to include discussion of Noble Houses.

Comment author: Vaniver 11 April 2012 05:10:21AM -1 points [-]

None of the canon classmates are noble, though.

Comment author: pedanterrific 11 April 2012 05:11:18AM *  2 points [-]

The only canon Noble and Most Ancient House is Black, though.

Comment author: Vaniver 11 April 2012 05:22:21AM *  -2 points [-]

Hm. It looks like EY just took any pure-blood family and decided to make it a Noble House- that suggests Crouch is one too, and possibly Lestrange. (But there are way more than seven of those.)

Comment author: pedanterrific 11 April 2012 05:25:30AM 5 points [-]

Thank Donny for noticing this, but apparently there's a distinction being drawn between 'Noble' Houses like Potter and 'Noble and Most Ancient' Houses like Malfoy, Longbottom, Greengrass and Black.

Comment author: Vaniver 11 April 2012 05:40:34AM *  2 points [-]

Indeed. I count 18 families 'related to' the House of Black, and if all of those are Noble or Noble and Most Ancient we could quickly round out the list.

Both Rosier and Lestrange show up on that list, so that raises my estimate that Bones thinks Quirrel is one of those classmates instead, but both of them were Death Eaters. Since so much is diverging from canon here, I suspect I should stop trying to predict based on canon and just wait to see what's changed.

(I couldn't resist, some more research: the Peverell family is extinct in the male line, suggesting that they might have been Noble and Most Ancient and the Potters, descended from them in the female line, are just Noble. That would mean that Riddle is just Noble, rather than Noble and Most Ancient, though, but who knows.)

Comment author: linkhyrule5 11 April 2012 05:44:32AM 0 points [-]

Presumably they're... well, at the risk of being obvious, the Most Ancient Houses?

Comment author: pedanterrific 11 April 2012 05:48:00AM 3 points [-]

Then how could the destruction of one cause their numbers to fall from eight to seven? If it's just a matter of who can trace their roots back the farthest, surely the next-oldest would be bumped up.

Comment author: taelor 11 April 2012 09:14:28AM 6 points [-]

Possibly there's some cutoff point, with only houses founded before that point given the Most Ancient label; whether this comes with any official privileges beyond just being old and respected remains to be seen.

Comment author: LucasSloan 11 April 2012 09:19:37AM 5 points [-]

It seems like the obvious cut-off point would be the original houses founded when Merlin created the Wizengamot.

Comment author: [deleted] 11 April 2012 06:41:04AM 6 points [-]

By now the Most Ancient label has shifted from being descriptive, to just part of the name

Comment author: ArisKatsaris 11 April 2012 10:54:03AM 3 points [-]

It looks like EY just took any pure-blood family and decided to make it a Noble House

This is lazy of you, downvoted.

The Crabbes and Goyles have not been declared noble. The Parkinsons and Montagues and Boles have not been declared noble.