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dspeyer comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 15, chapter 84 - Less Wrong Discussion

3 Post author: FAWS 11 April 2012 03:39AM

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Comment author: dspeyer 11 April 2012 05:20:33AM *  3 points [-]

Way back in chapter 7, Draco refers to "the Noble and Most Ancient House of Black". That's a fifth noble house.

JKR said Nott was ranked as highly as Malfoy. Doesn't necessarily apply in MOR.

Comment author: Vaniver 11 April 2012 05:25:26AM 3 points [-]

I was going to say the Blacks are all (supposedly) dead in HPMOR at this point, but then I remembered that Sirius is (supposedly) just in Azkaban, not dead yet, and if he's counting the female line (like he would have to for Riddle to count) then there's also Bellatrix.

Comment author: Percent_Carbon 11 April 2012 08:58:38AM 2 points [-]

Maybe Andromeda Black-Tonks can to revive the house even though she was disowned if all the other members are dead or Azkabaned.

Comment author: ygert 11 April 2012 09:03:07AM 3 points [-]

There's also Draco, Tonks, and Andromeda. (Andromeda is Tonks' mother, Bellatrix's and Narcissa's sister.) This is all assuming that the female line counts, which it more or less has to.

Comment author: thomblake 11 April 2012 02:37:04PM 1 point [-]

Yes, I'd assume one of Draco's children would take up the mantle of Black if it came to that.

Comment author: Alsadius 13 April 2012 12:02:42AM 0 points [-]

Or Draco himself.

Comment author: thomblake 13 April 2012 12:33:00AM 1 point [-]

I assume Draco will remain a Malfoy and that you can't have both.

Comment author: Alsadius 13 April 2012 02:56:51AM 1 point [-]

Can't you? Multiple titles, and even personal union of crowns, are pretty common in RL nobility and royalty. It being allowed would be my default assumption, and I know of no Potterverse evidence to the contrary.

Comment author: Vaniver 13 April 2012 08:55:46PM *  2 points [-]

There's a difference between dynasties and titles. Houses are dynasties- lots and lots of people were Habsburgs, even though only one person held a title at any particular time. For example, Philip I was, in 1505, King of Castile, Duke of Burgundy, Duke of Brabant, Duke of Limburg, Duke of Lothier, Duke of Luxemburg, Margrave of Namur, Count Palatine of Burgundy, Count of Artois, Count of Charolais, Count of Flanders, Count of Hainault, Count of Holland, and Count of Zeeland, but only a member of one House- the Habsburgs.

Also, take a look at cadet branches.

It doesn't seem likely that wizards actually have hereditary titles that are linked to locations, since their power comes from magic, not farmland. Lord Malfoy is probably only a Lord because he's on the Wizengamot- Draco doesn't seem to have a courtesy title, as would befit the son of an important position in Muggle Britain.

Comment author: pedanterrific 13 April 2012 10:26:06PM *  1 point [-]

Lord Malfoy is probably only a Lord because he's on the Wizengamot

In MoR, Malfoy is a Noble and Most Ancient House, which presumably comes with a title. In canon, Lucius is neither a Lord, nor on the Wizengamot.

Also, in MoR we have

Though she was not addressed as Lady, Madam Longbottom would exercise the full rights of the Longbottom family for so long as their last scion had yet to attain his majority, and she was considered a prominent figure in a minority faction of the Wizengamot.

Comment author: Vaniver 13 April 2012 11:56:41PM 0 points [-]

In MoR, Malfoy is a Noble and Most Ancient House, which presumably comes with a title. In canon, Lucius is neither a Lord, nor on the Wizengamot.

My presumption is that title comes from being on the Wizengamot, not that he's on the Wizengamot because he has a title. That's mostly because I don't quite see what they would use the titles for, except as a medieval version of "Senator."

Comment author: thomblake 13 April 2012 02:13:17PM 0 points [-]

In that case I'd expect in that case there to be more people whose title is something like "Lord of Malfoy, Black, Longbottom, and Potter".

Comment author: pedanterrific 13 April 2012 08:39:15PM 1 point [-]

Oh god, bad fanfiction flashbacks...

Comment author: thomblake 13 April 2012 08:44:25PM 2 points [-]

I wasn't sure whether it was relevant to include a note about those there.

If only Harry realized earlier that he was a descendant of all four Hogwarts founders, Merlin, Amaterasu, and Voltron.

Comment author: Alsadius 13 April 2012 02:37:38PM 1 point [-]

Long-form noble titles are used very rarely, because they're so unwieldy, and we've only seen a couple of folks who would be in a position to have multiple titles at all in the sort of detail where the long form would be used. Dumbledore is the only example I know of where they actually used anything longer than a few words. You're right that we might have seen one, but Rowling would likely have found it a bit too complex, and they're not so common that the lack is significant.

Comment author: pedanterrific 13 April 2012 08:40:04PM 0 points [-]

Rowling wouldn't have done it because the only nobility in canon Harry Potter is the Black family.