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pedanterrific comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 15, chapter 84 - Less Wrong Discussion

3 Post author: FAWS 11 April 2012 03:39AM

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Comment author: pedanterrific 13 April 2012 01:42:31AM 0 points [-]

Are you assuming it can't be shielded against? That seems unlikely. And if you can catch your opponent before he casts any shields there are easier ways to kill someone.

Comment author: VincenzoLingley 13 April 2012 05:43:10AM 0 points [-]

Are you assuming it can't be shielded against?

You would need to always have a shield up.

And if you can catch your opponent before he casts any shields there are easier ways to kill someone.

For example? Most purpose-built spells are in the form of a bolt that you have time to see and dodge.

Comment author: pedanterrific 13 April 2012 05:56:49AM *  5 points [-]

You would need to always have a shield up.

Yes... this is a fact of combat. Not sure why you said this.

For example?

"Accio frontal lobe."

Or "Imperio, kill yourself."

Or for that matter "Obliviate."

Edit: Actually, I'm pretty sure Somnium is invisible. It doesn't kill immediately, of course, but that's easily rectified.

Comment author: gjm 13 April 2012 02:16:59PM 3 points [-]

Accio frontal lobe

Might have the same sort of problem as partial Transfiguration has for everyone other than Harry: only works on a Whole Object and not on parts thereof. Your frontal lobe, or even your brain, might not be considered a separate object by whatever is responsible for making magic work.

Comment author: pedanterrific 17 April 2012 08:01:12PM 1 point [-]

Personally, I doubt that Charms and free Transfiguration are alike in that sense, but even if they are we have Word of McGonagall that it's possible to Transfigure just your skin or hair. Apparently human bodies are subdivided, according to the idea of Forms.

Comment author: VincenzoLingley 13 April 2012 06:17:04AM 0 points [-]

Yes... this is a fact of combat.

Not in what we have seen so far. IIRC, neither Quirrell nor Dumbledore have pre-cast shields in TSPE, which (IIRC) is the only piece of serious action by competent people in MoR. I don't remember canon well, but I would have noticed consistent pre-cast shields.

"Accio frontal lobe."

This is the same idea as hover charm.

Or "Imperio, kill yourself."

Imperio can be resisted.

Or for that matter "Obliviate."

No idea how obliviate works, so maybe.

But all 3 are spells with instantaneous effect. I think/agree that spells with instantaneous effect are overpowered. But the fact is that we haven't seen anyone use or mention such ways of killing, which makes me think that they must somehow be impossible. Hence the initial question.

Comment author: pedanterrific 13 April 2012 06:26:03AM *  6 points [-]

IIRC, neither Quirrell nor Dumbledore have pre-cast shields in TSPE, which (IIRC) is the only piece of serious action by competent people in MoR.

Funny thing about the combat in TSPE, we get this little digression:

The Auror was protected by a blue shimmer, it was hard to see the details but Harry could see that much, the Auror had shields already raised and strengthened.

Crap, thought Harry. According to the Defense Professor, the essential art of dueling consisted of trying to put up defenses that would block whatever someone was likely to throw at you, while trying in turn to attack in ways that were likely to go past their current set of defenses. And by far the easiest way to win any sort of real fight - Professor Quirrell had said this over and over - was to shoot the enemy before they raised a shield in the first place, either from behind or from close enough range that they couldn't dodge or counter in time.

And a little later,

Bahry had already swapped the harmonics on his shields so that his own stunner couldn't pass back through, already tilted his wand back into a defensive position, already raised his hardened artificial hand into position to block anything blockable, and was already thinking wordless spells to put more layers on his shields -

The man wasn't looking at Bahry. Instead he was poking curiously at Bahry's stunner where it still wavered on the end of his wand, drawing out red sparks and flicking them away with his fingers, slowly disassembling the hex like a child's rod puzzle.

The man hadn't raised any shields of his own.

Quirrell (and presumably Dumbledore) are on the level above where they have to worry about shielding against anyone but an equal.

And do I really have to go back through Self-Actualization and come up with the list of times the bullies and Tonks had pre-cast Protegos before they entered combat?

I don't remember canon well, but I would have noticed consistent pre-cast shields.

Yes, this is a change from canon. Mainly because magical combat was actually given some thought in MoR.

This is the same idea as hover charm.

Except a lot faster and with less expenditure of energy. Rather than bouncing someone off the ceiling- which seems difficult to do hard enough to instantly kill a wizard (who can survive a lot more blunt trauma than Muggles)- you just rip their brain out their eyesockets.

Imperio can be resisted.

As far as I know, the only word on that we have in MoR is "Powerful wizards are not so easy to Imperius," which leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

Comment author: Alsadius 13 April 2012 03:53:35AM 0 points [-]

Other than Patronus 2.0, it is explicitly stated to be unblockable by people who would know.

Comment author: pedanterrific 13 April 2012 03:56:52AM *  0 points [-]

I'm talking about Wingardium Leviosa.