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ArisKatsaris comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 15, chapter 84 - Less Wrong Discussion

3 Post author: FAWS 11 April 2012 03:39AM

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Comment author: ArisKatsaris 18 April 2012 12:47:15AM 2 points [-]

The weakness of this argument is that it requires a previously unmentioned detail, that Malfoy knows Voldemort uses riddle puns.

It only requires that Malfoy knows Voldemort to be Tom Riddle -- which in canon he did.

Comment author: chaosmosis 18 April 2012 04:49:11AM 0 points [-]

I don't know why you think I didn't know this. But there is a difference between knowing Tom Riddle is Voldemort and knowing that Voldemort's secret identities often use Riddle puns. This difference is poignantly illustrated by the fact that HPMOR Harry knows Tom Riddle is Voldemort but never catches on to the Riddle puns. If you're going to correct me, please make sure that I'm actually wrong in the first place.

Additionally, I explicitly said that this objection was only weak and that the theory was still fairly strong. I don't know why you would make this comment unless you're fishing for karma or you love to argue about trivial and stupid things.

Comment author: ArisKatsaris 18 April 2012 09:53:17AM *  4 points [-]

This difference is poignantly illustrated by the fact that HPMOR Harry knows Tom Riddle is Voldemort but never catches on to the Riddle puns.

Harry in HPMoR hasn't been told Voldemort was once named Tom Riddle.

If you're going to correct me, please make sure that I'm actually wrong in the first place.

I've just made sure, by searching for all occurrences of the word "riddle" in the Methods of Rationality PDF -- and seeing that Dumbledore never once mentions the name Tom Riddle in front of Harry. Is this enough "making sure"?

I don't know why you would make this comment unless you're fishing for karma or you love to argue about trivial and stupid things.

Your imprecisions lead to flawed conclusions. I've only been making corrections when the mistakes significantly affect such conclusions.

Comment author: drnickbone 21 May 2012 08:39:06PM *  2 points [-]

This is a good catch by the way, and itself another oddity.

Canon Dumbledore told Harry a lot about Voldemort's background (including the Riddle years and his theories about the horcruxes) - HPMOR Dumbledore has done none of this. And yet he expects Harry to fight him, and Harry already knows about the prophecy.

Another issue is that I'm recently doubting whether Quirrell/Voldemort is actually Tom Riddle in the HPMOR universe. It is clearly implied that Quirrell = Voldemort, but then suddenly in chapters 84 and 85 we get this Quirrell = Hero identification (from a Noble and Ancient House, no less). Further, Eliezer has made it clear that Hero is not Tom Riddle (by adjusting the birth year).

So what are the possibilities? It seems that either Tom Riddle killed the original Hero character, and then impersonated him in the fight against his alter ego Voldemort. Or, even more intriguingly, the Hero character fought and defeated Tom Riddle much earlier on, then set up the Voldemort character to be the awful Dark Lord with a "secret" identity of Tom Riddle, while himself being the "secret within a secret" identity, and the heroic adversary. This is a plot worthy of a truly evil Sith Lord such as Emperor Palpatine. Presumably the Death Eaters as well as Dumbledore and aurors are all deceived, and this is the real reason why booby-trapping the grave of Tom Riddle's father (after TSPE) is going to be of no use. Quirrelmort has no need to hide the father's grave, because it's totally irrelevant.

Comment author: pedanterrific 18 April 2012 04:55:46AM *  1 point [-]

HPMOR Harry knows Tom Riddle is Voldemort

What makes you think this? (He doesn't.)

Comment author: chaosmosis 18 April 2012 05:46:03AM 1 point [-]

Dumbledore talks about Tom = Voldemort all the time in front of him... I think.

But it doesn't impact my point either way. But I understand why pointing out the error still makes sense despite the previous sentence.

And now I've wasted an hour arguing on the internet which is one of the most useless things that I know of and which is what I was trying to avoid in the first place hangs head in shame.

Comment author: pedanterrific 18 April 2012 05:56:51AM 5 points [-]

Dumbledore talks about Tom = Voldemort all the time in front of him... I think.

Not even once, in fact.