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hairyfigment comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 16, chapter 85 - Less Wrong Discussion

9 Post author: FAWS 18 April 2012 02:30AM

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Comment author: ArisKatsaris 18 April 2012 12:14:54PM 24 points [-]

Okay, after thinking a few minutes about the Batman-Joker/where do you put Dark Wizards if you're determined not to use Dementors anymore problem...

Unbreakable Vow anyone? Just give Dark Wizards the option "either you take an Unbreakable Vow to never knowingly kill/torture/Imperio a human being ever again, nor to ever knowingly assist in such, or we just execute you right now".

I can think up of possible ways out of this meta-problem, in order to sustain the dilemma: Perhaps really powerful Dark Wizards require too vast a portion of magical power to sustain the vow. Perhaps there are dark rituals whereby using them, Dark Wizards can break out of even an (ill-named) Unbreakable Vow. Perhaps Dark Wizards tend to have made other rituals that already make them immune to Unbreakable Vows... Perhaps unbreakable vows need be really really specific in some weird manner like "I will not kill Bill Weasley", and "I will not kill Charlie Weasley" necessarily are two separate vows, so that "I will not kill any human" isn't enforceable...

But these are additional problems that are not yet mentioned/listed/foreshadowed in the story. Ugh, Unbreakable Vows seem something of a game breaker right now.

Sidenote: Whenever I think of something such, I worry that the author will think he'll have to rewrite/revise everything he had already planned, and that we'll never get an update again. Not my intention, I swear.

Comment author: hairyfigment 18 April 2012 08:43:22PM 9 points [-]

Perhaps there are dark rituals whereby using them, Dark Wizards can break out of even an (ill-named) Unbreakable Vow.

Well, they can die. I've seen nothing to suggest that Vows destroy Horcruxes.

Comment author: culdraug 19 April 2012 12:51:50AM 12 points [-]

I wonder if this fact is possibly relevant to some Cunning Plot in which - perhaps just as one among many positive results - Voldemort "died" and resurrected via horcrux in order to escape an Unbreakable Vow. I remember in response to chapter 84, people were wondering what, if Voldie's apparent death at Godric's Hollow was intentional, was in it for him.

Comment author: Desrtopa 18 April 2012 11:52:21PM 3 points [-]

But will they come back free of the Vow? It seems entirely plausible to me that it would follow them into their new incarnation.

Comment author: Viliam_Bur 19 April 2012 11:14:49AM 3 points [-]

They could still break it once per incarnation.

Comment author: wirov 20 April 2012 01:20:07PM 4 points [-]

… thus killing one human per incarnation, thus creating one horcrux per incarnation.

Now, if there were some way to automate the whole getting-a-body-business …

Comment author: hairyfigment 20 April 2012 01:34:14AM -1 points [-]

Not in the specifications. They just say, 'anyone who breaks the Vow dies.' Ending with death is a feature.

Though if the people who first found the spell really thought that way, they must not have truly believed anyone could stay in their world after death.