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75th comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 16, chapter 85 - Less Wrong Discussion

9 Post author: FAWS 18 April 2012 02:30AM

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Comment author: Alejandro1 20 April 2012 04:09:28PM 1 point [-]

It would be a neat solution if murdering fetuses, animals, infants, etc. as compared to adult humans ripped apart varying-sized fragments of your soul depending on the level of personhood of the victim, and the resulting Horcruxes could store more or less of your soul (i.e. more or less of your personality and memories) depending on the same. Canon probably rules it out, though, or Voldemort would not have gone after a baby for his final Horcrux.

Comment author: pedanterrific 20 April 2012 05:09:01PM 1 point [-]

Canon probably rules it out, though, or Voldemort would not have gone after a baby for his final Horcrux.

He didn't; the Harrycrux was accidental, and he killed Bertha Jorkins to make Nagini in '94.

Comment author: Alejandro1 20 April 2012 05:33:29PM 2 points [-]

I can't find confirmation of this online, and I don't have the books with me, but I seem to remember Dumbledore telling Harry in HBP that Voldemort had intended to use the murder of baby Harry as means to create his last Horcrux (the planned Horcrux would not have literally been dead baby Harry, of course). Of course, that might have been mere speculation by Dumbledore, or I might be misremembering.

Comment author: pedanterrific 20 April 2012 05:59:27PM *  2 points [-]

Seems like speculation to me:

However, if my calculations are correct, Voldemort was still at least one Horcrux short of his goal of six when he entered your parents' house with the intention of killing you. He seems to have reserved the process of making Horcruxes for particularly significant deaths. You would certainly have been that. He believed that in killing you, he was destroying the danger the prophecy had outlined. He believed he was making himself invincible. I am sure that he was intending to make his final Horcrux with your death. As we know, he failed.

It should be noted that "he reserved making Horcruxes for significant deaths" is flat wrong.

Comment author: 75th 22 April 2012 12:17:55AM 0 points [-]

How do we know it's wrong? As far as I can remember, the only two deaths to which we can pin the creation of horcruxes are Moaning Myrtle's and Harry Potter's. Myrtle herself wasn't significant, but she was the casualty of Slytherin's Basilisk, which Tom Riddle had commanded, which proved that he was the Heir of Slytherin. It was his coming out as the Heir of Slytherin, which would have been very significant to Riddle.

Comment author: pedanterrific 22 April 2012 12:50:05AM 5 points [-]

All the sources I've found indicate the deaths used to create the Horcruxes are Myrtle (diary) - Riddle Sr. (ring) - an unnamed Muggle tramp (locket) - Hepzibah Smith (cup) - an unnamed Albanian peasant (diadem) - Voldemort himself (Harry) - Bertha Jorkins (Nagini), in that order.

Comment author: 75th 22 April 2012 03:30:56AM 1 point [-]

Ah yeah, that list does ring a bell. Right you are, then.

Comment author: glumph 27 April 2012 06:52:55PM *  0 points [-]

I thought that the Nagini horcrux was made via the killing of Frank Bryce. Don't have the book with me to check, though.

Comment author: shminux 27 April 2012 07:00:34PM 1 point [-]

This being the 21st century, shall we make it up or look it up?

Comment author: glumph 01 May 2012 02:12:55AM *  1 point [-]

This is the quote I had in mind, from Chapter 23 of HBP:

‘He [Voldemort] seems to have reserved the process of making Horcruxes for particularly significant deaths. You would certainly have been that. He believed that in killing you, he was destroying the danger the prophecy had outlined. He believed he was making himself invincible. I am sure that he was intending to make his final Horcrux with your death.

‘As we know, he failed. After an interval of some years, however, he used Nagini to kill an old Muggle man, and it might then have occurred to him to turn her into his last Horcrux.

If Dumbledore is right, then Bertha Jorkins could not have been murdered to make that Horcrux, because she was already dead. Is there an interview where Rowling says otherwise? I don't see anything on the wiki page (a citation, or other reference) that backs up their claim.

Comment author: pedanterrific 01 May 2012 03:11:20AM 1 point [-]

It's on the talk page. Link is broken, though.

Comment author: GeorgieChaos 20 April 2012 04:24:24PM -1 points [-]

Wouldn't he? I though he got madder & less reliable as he shaved off more & more of his soul; less & less recognizably human, too. If it had been the case that he could make a small Horcrux later on when that decay was already advanced then it might have made a sort of sense to take a smaller fragment of himself away from the already damaged original.

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