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knb comments on Cultural norms in choice of mate - Less Wrong Discussion

-14 [deleted] 10 July 2012 08:18AM

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Comment author: knb 11 July 2012 08:37:27AM -1 points [-]

If that OKCupid author isn't being wilfully dishonest, then he is just an awful thinker. Just as an example, he cites the higher frequency at which old female OKCupid users get tested for STDs as an example of why young guys should be more open to dating them.

Comment author: [deleted] 11 July 2012 11:46:15PM 0 points [-]

Just as an example, he cites the higher frequency at which old female OKCupid users get tested for STDs as an example of why young guys should be more open to dating them.

I can't see anything obviously wrong with that reasoning.

Comment author: [deleted] 12 July 2012 02:18:47AM * 1 point [-]

If that OKCupid author isn't being wilfully dishonest, then he is just an awful thinker. Just as an example, he cites the higher frequency at which old female OKCupid users get tested for STDs as an example of why young guys should be more open to dating them.

I can't see anything obviously wrong with that reasoning.

I believe that knb doesn't understand the difference between getting tested for STDs, and having STDs. Getting tested is something that every sexually active person should do occasionally, with a possible exception for long-term monogamous couples. (although even then, it's not a bad idea.)

Comment author: [deleted] 12 July 2012 10:01:18AM * 3 points [-]

Actually, I had interpreted what he says to mean that one advantage of dating older women is that they are less likely to have undetected STDs, since they get tested for them more often.

Comment author: [deleted] comment score below threshold [+] (7 children)

Comment author: Yvain 12 July 2012 10:04:07PM * 8 points [-]

You interpret the OKCupid article as saying (and I agree) that older women, because they test for STDs more frequently, are less likely to have undetected STDs.

But although the conclusion is correct, the argument is fallacious. Consider the following analogous argument: "Don't want a boyfriend with prostate cancer? You should date an old man! After all, old men get tested for prostate cancer all the time, but young men almost never get tested for prostate cancer at all. Therefore, old men are less likely to have undetected prostate cancer."

We can't directly reason from one population being tested more often to that population having lower undetected levels of the disease. Doing so is a logical fallacy, and knb was exactly right to point this out, here on this site about avoiding logical fallacies. He didn't simultaneously point out that the same applies to someone fallaciously saying men who test for STDs must have fewer STDs, because no one posted a link to an article claiming exactly that.

This is an uncharitable interpretation of knb's post and the tone is extraordinarily nasty for this site.

Comment author: [deleted] 12 July 2012 10:25:26PM * 1 point [-]

Your analogy is not at all applicable. According to the American Cancer Society, men should start considering getting a prostate exam at age 50. Therefore if a 23 year old male is NOT getting a prostate exam, then he is doing exactly the right thing and still has a low risk of prostate cancer.

However, adults of ANY age who are sexually active (again, excluding monogamy, if you want), SHOULD be getting tested for STDs. Therefore if a sexually active 23 year-old female is not getting tested for STDs then she is NOT behaving responsibly, and has a much higher risk of having an STD than the older female, who has had more partners, but is tested regularly.

tl;dr- Base rates

Comment author: Yvain 12 July 2012 10:47:15PM * 7 points [-]

You're disputing a contingent aspect of the analogy that isn't related to the problem with the OKCupid article.

To establish that "older people get tested more -> older people have less undetected disease", you first have to establish that older people started out with the same base rate of disease as younger people. The OKCupid article doesn't do that, and knb is correctly calling them out on it.

I agree that younger people in fact have higher STD rates than older people, but OKCupid makes a fallacious argument for this, and it is acceptable in philosophy to criticize fallacious arguments for true conclusions.

Comment author: [deleted] 13 July 2012 10:25:37AM * 1 point [-]

Well, that's just nitpicking. The implicit assumption (that young women aren't much less likely a priori than old women to have STDs) is so uncontroversial that it's not such a fatal mistake to not make it explicit. For that matter, it doesn't make explicit the assumption that ceteris paribus people would prefer not to have STDs, either.

Comment author: [deleted] comment score below threshold [+] (2 children)

Comment author: knb 12 July 2012 03:56:10AM 0 points [-]

The older women still on these dating sites are those who didn't get married and have racked up large numbers of sex partners over the years.

So it isn't really surprising that young men who are looking for relationships would avoid women who are especially concerned about sex diseases and avoided (or were rejected) for long-term commitments.

Comment author: [deleted] 12 July 2012 10:07:00AM 0 points [-]

C'mon, 50% of the population have IQs below 100. :-) (And some of the older women might be recently divorced/widowed ones.)

(Still, I don't think your comment should be downvoted. Upvoted back to 0, because you still mentioned an issue I hadn't thought about.)

Comment author: knb 12 July 2012 10:45:38PM -1 points [-]

I knew these comments would be downvoted. Less Wrong has proven unable to have a genuine discussion about relationships. These issues cut people too deeply.

knb comments on Cultural norms in choice of mate - Less Wrong Discussion

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