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JoshuaZ comments on HP:MOR and the Radio Fallacy - Less Wrong Discussion

22 Post author: RichardChappell 21 July 2012 07:55PM

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Comment author: JoshuaZ 21 July 2012 09:22:05PM *  2 points [-]

X = Mind. Y = Brain Chunks. Let X depend on Brain Chunks and Soul and Astral Flubber. If your mind is dependent on all of them for proper operation, then you can't speak when all your brain chunks are gone. End of story. You can play epiphenomenal games and argue that "yes, but you still have Soul and Astral Flubber." But who cares? All mind function is lost. I may "have" eternal and indestructible Astral Flubber, but what good does it do me?

This only follows if the impact from the Soul and Astral Flubber.is negligible. You could see a situation where it wasn't purely epiphenomenal and where tests could be made to verify that. For example, one could make an extremely detailed emulation of the brain, and if it then became apparent that that was failing at a variety of different levels, that would be evidence for Astral Flubber or the Soul having a direct impact on the wetspace version.

Comment author: buybuydandavis 21 July 2012 10:06:46PM 4 points [-]

First, just the obvious "my simulation doesn't work" does not imply Soul or Astral Flubber exists or that it does something. The more reasonable interpretation is that your simulation sucks.

This only follows if the impact from the Soul and Astral Flubber.negligible.

No, it doesn't. Both could have great impact when combined with a brain, but take away the brain, and you have no function. Harry wanted the continued function of the mind after physical destruction of the body. Even if the mind dependency is Brain AND Astral Flubber, brain gone means mind gone. Astral Flubber has not shown the capability to replace the function of brain chunks, so why would we expect it to replace the function of all the chunks together?

Comment author: JoshuaZ 23 July 2012 01:10:14AM 1 point [-]

First, just the obvious "my simulation doesn't work" does not imply Soul or Astral Flubber exists or that it does something. The more reasonable interpretation is that your simulation sucks.

For the initial simulations yes. If for example humans spent fifty years making more and more detailed simulations and they still didn't work, and there was no sign that they were improving at all, the existence of some really weird new physics shouldn't be discounted at that point.

No, it doesn't. Both could have great impact when combined with a brain, but take away the brain, and you have no function. Harry wanted the continued function of the mind after physical destruction of the body. Even if the mind dependency is Brain AND Astral Flubber, brain gone means mind gone.

This seems like a much stronger point. The evidence shows that Astral Flubber is at least not sufficient, and the brain is really doing almost everything that matters.

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