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scientism comments on Article about LW: Faith, Hope, and Singularity: Entering the Matrix with New York’s Futurist Set - Less Wrong Discussion
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It's not so much the content as the presentation. The tone is incredibly self-absorbed and condescending. I thought the whole thing was a joke until I encountered the above quoted paragraph with its apparent sincerity. Presumably some of the content is intended to be tongue-in-check and some of it posturing, but it's difficult to separate. There's a compounding weirdness to the whole thing. Fetishes or open relationships or whatever aren't in themselves causes for concern but when somebody is trying to advocate for rationalism and a particular approach to ethics, the sense that you're following them somewhere very strange isn't good to have.
Let me try to make that clearer: Utilitarianism already has the problem of frequently sounding as if sociopaths are discussing ethics as something entirely abstract. Applying that to relationships, in the form of evangelical polyamory, takes it to another level of squeamishness (as others here have indicated). Seeing those ideas put into practice in the context of the dating profile of a self-professed sadist (who has been accused of wanting to take over the world, no less), replete with technical terminology ("primary", "dance card", etc), condescending advice to prospective conquests to help them overcome their fear of rejection and a general tone of callousness, sends it over the edge. Read straight, the profile could almost serve as a reductio for SIAI-brand ethics and rationality.
I'm also worried about who the intended audience is. Since I can't imagine anyone not deeply immersed in the Less Wrong community responding positively to it, I was left with the sense that perhaps our community's figurehead is (ab)using his position in ways that, as some else put it, "don't help the phyg pattern matching." It's basically an advertisement saying, "I'm a leader in small community x and I'm open to your sexual advances, so don't be shy."
And the problem with this is what, exactly? AFAIK, that's simply the male equivalent to a cleavage photo.
This bit is quite similar to the rest of your comment: a denotative description with negative connotation, but lacking in any explanation for the connotation applied.
More precisely your criticism appears to all be of the form, "this is weird, and weird is bad." There isn't any explanation of "bad", not even bad for whom or what goals, let alone how it is expected to be bad.
Less Wrong is already weird enough without the blatant weirdness in EY's OKCupid profile. I'm seriously disappointed and worried by the fact that it's still public, to be honest...
I think we're all committing the typical mind fallacy by assuming that random other people are like us in that they'll actually evaluate the ideas behind something instead of just superficially judging the people describing the ideas. Yes, we should try to get people to actually evaluate ideas as much as possible, but we should also try to appear as normal as possible for people who don't instinctively actually evaluate ideas. See http://www.overcomingbias.com/2012/01/dear-young-eccentric.html
As far as I can tell, a large part of the reason PR departments exist in the first place is to control superficial impressions. I think this sends a bad superficial impression (and possibly even a worrisome non-superficial impression, i.e. on reflection maybe we don't want to have someone who would write what EY wrote as a high-status figure in the aspiring rationalist community).
The latter is a somewhat stronger signal in as much as it is hard to fake. You have to have cleavage if you wish to show it off in a crudely overt way. Writing that you have status requires nothing.
Push-up bras. Photoshop. Or even uploading a picture of someone else.
I can't imagine someone with an IQ of 90 able to come up with what EY wrote. Even the lack of spelling or grammar errors would be unusual for such a person. And his position within SIAI is easily googleable.
Pjeby was referring to a specific, fairly simple sentence. The most complex part was the single comma. The sentence is rather less impressive than even moderately endowed cleavage displays.
I agree that the overall profile is a strong signal. If I recall correctly I described it in a cousin comment as an approximately optimal combination of signalling and screening given Eliezer's strengths and weaknesses. Someone else attempting to convey the same message would require non-trivial amounts of intelligence and an awful lot of familiarity with Eliezer's culture.
As someone who had read Eliezer's OkCupid profile sometime not very recently, I was actually gonna reply to this with something like "well, scientism goes maybe a bit too far, but he does actually have a point"
...but then I just went and reread the OkCupid profile, and no, actually it's wonderfully funny and I have no worries similar to scientism's, unlike earlier when the profile didn't explicitly mention sadism.
Obviously Eliezer is a very unusual and "weird" person, but the openness about it that we observe here is a winning move, unlike the case where one might sense that he might be hiding something. Dishonesty and secrecy is what the evil phyg leaders would go for, whereas Eliezer's openness invites scrutiny and allows him to emerge from it without the scrutinizers having found incriminating evidence.
Also, where are you seeing evangelical polyamory? I'm very much not polyamorous myself, and haven't ever felt that anyone around here would be pushing polyamory to me.
I was going to post: "What makes it evangelical polyamory as opposed to just plain old polyamory?"
It seems to me the "evangelical" part was just added to make it seem worse without actually giving any valid reasons.
I think there's a strong effect wherein "open non-ashamed polyamory wherein you mention any positive reason why you like it" = "evangelical polyamory", or even just "open polyamory" = "evangelical polyamory", for the same reasons as "evangelical atheism" and "evangelical homosexuality".