= 27d567bc2d48d9f40e9ccc20ea370b15)
Tetronian comments on Article about LW: Faith, Hope, and Singularity: Entering the Matrix with New York’s Futurist Set - Less Wrong Discussion
You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.
= 783df68a0f980790206b9ea87794c5b6)
Loading…= b715d02e85f7b3b4ae65ca3d3e450868)
Subscribe to RSS Feed
Powered by Reddit
= f037147d6e6c911a85753b9abdedda8d)
Comments (231)
I think I've made it clear that I don't find offence in any of the particular lifestyle choices expressed in the profile (i.e., sadomasochism and polyamory), but I think it's more than an issue of mere presentation or the squick factor. My point is that the profile offers some insight into where following LW/SIAI/CFAR recommendations might take you. When somebody sets themselves up as an ethics and rationality expert their own lifestyle and character are going to be subject to especial scrutiny and rightly so. That isn't to say that people should be alarmed at sadomasochism or polyamory; what I tried to convey was that everything together - the quirks, the presentation, the personality - painted a picture of something altogether bizarre. That combined with the fact that this person is offering advice on how to live your life was the source of potential terror.
Based on your previous comment, I had guessed that you were squicked out by the presentation rather than Eliezer's actual lifestyle choices; thank you for clarifying. As I indicated above, I had a similar emotional reaction to the presentation.
I'm curious as to what underlying psychological factors caused us to react this way, and what subset of the population would also feel this kind of squick.
I guess what I want to emphasise is that I don't think the reaction is illicit or even particularly subjective. One of the ways a system of ethics can fail is that it's impoverished. It doesn't capture everything we want to say about the subject. When you encounter a person or group who are living their life according to a particular ethical system and you have the sense of things spiralling away from normalcy, that's a legitimate cause for concern. It's a sense that something might be missing here. That's why I said it could almost serve as a reductio. It's similar to performing a long calculation and being left with the sense that the answer is an order of magnitude out.
Imagine replacing the polyamory with homosexuality, and imagine it is a few decades ago when homosexuality was as risque as polyamory is currently. Do you have the same reaction? If not, what is different? If so, do you condone that reaction?
There's a historical parallel there. In the earlier 20th century the followers of GE Moore's system of ethics were alleged to have had non-standard relationships and practiced "evangelical" homosexuality. No doubt they were right to challenge the social mores of their day but I also think it would be fair to say that their lifestyles in total signalled an impoverished ethical system (in this case one dedicated to aesthetic pleasure). Obviously you can have good and bad reasons for doing anything. I've seen posts on LW about "polyhacking" (ridding oneself of sexual jealousy) and intentionally opening oneself up to same-sex relationships. I take no issue with any of this except that people might be doing them for bad reasons and that if somebody is engaged in a lot of this kind of thing it can be reason to ask whether their goals got confused somewhere along the way.
Agreed.
I would also say the same thing about someone who spends a lot of time trying to conform to mainstream sexual or relationship norms.
Of course, figuring out what my society wants from me (sexually, romantically, or in any other area) and arranging my life so I provide it isn't necessarily problematic, any more than figuring out what I enjoy (ibid) and arranging my life to provide me with more of it is. But if I'm doing either to the significant exclusion of pursuing other things I value, I've gotten off track.
That said, I've noticed lots of people tend to notice (or at least point out) that truth differentially when the derailing force is a non-mainstream activity.
To me, what society considers "normal" is terribly unethical, so "spiraling away from normalcy" isn't a cause for concern, but perks my curiosity.
"Maybe he's on to something..."