Proposed rewrites can be found here. Please suggest specific improvements in the comments!
Although long-time Less Wrong users don't pay much attention to the home page, about page, and FAQ, I suspect new users pay lots of attention to them. A few times, elsewhere on the internet, I've seen people describe their impression of Less Wrong that seemed primarily gleaned from these pages--they made generalizations about Less Wrong that didn't seem true to me, but might appear to be true if all one did was read the about page and FAQ.
The about page, in particular, is called out to every new visitor. Try visiting Less Wrong in incognito mode or private browsing (i.e. without your current cookies) to see what I'm referring to.
But the current set of "newcomer pages" isn't very good, in my opinion:
- Text is duplicated between the home page and the about page. There's plenty to say and link to without repeating ourselves.
- The first paragraph of the home page text has four links to Wikipedia articles and none to Less Wrong posts. These may be very good Wikipedia articles, but I tend to think that linking to actual Less Wrong posts is generally a better way to communicate what kind of site Less Wrong is than linking to Wikipedia.
- The home page text also makes references to the blog, discussion section, and meetups, which are already highlighted plenty in the brain image.
- I think the primary purpose of the about page should be to describe and link to lots of interesting Less Wrong posts. I think reading posts is probably best way to figure out what Less Wrong is about. If the smorgasboard of posts linked to from the about page is sufficiently varied and high-quality, I think that most users will be able to find at least a couple posts they really like. Right now this purpose isn't given much real estate. There is a sentence starting with the words "If you want a sampling of the content on the main blog...", but this sentence does little to describe the posts it links to aside from providing a few related keywords.
- There's also a lot of instruction on the about page regarding how to do basic stuff like create posts. Facebook and Youtube don't seem to think it's necessary to provide instructions on how to do basic stuff, so I don't think we need it either. (Just in case, though, it's mostly still all there in my rewrite of the FAQ.)
- Some of the answers in the FAQ make us look very close-minded (when in fact we're only a little close-minded). See Why is almost everyone here an atheist? and Why do you all agree on so much? Am I joining a cult?. I think it's possible to answer these questions in a way that's less obnoxious and gives a more accurate impression of what LW is like: 1, 2.
- I tried to link to various posts that are explicitly targeted at newcomers, like "What I've Learned from Less Wrong" and "What is Bayesianism?", but weren't being shown on the existing newcomer pages.
- I put a lot more stuff in the FAQ, on the theory that a long FAQ doesn't hurt much since folks can just read the answers to the questions that interest them.
- I deliberately avoided looking at the existing pages at first when writing my alternatives, to avoid contamination. My thinking was that being different for its own sake was good if we could reliably figure out which version was better in each case (e.g. overcome status quo bias). Please comment on nitty-gritty differences between the two versions, e.g. if you think I left an important sentence from the originals out or if one of the posts I linked to seems rather weak.
I certainly don't claim to speak for all Less Wrong users. If you have any thoughts, please comment here, send me a private message, or log in to the wiki and edit the candidate pages directly.
I'm especially interested in getting feedback on the FAQ, because I took the liberty of codifying some social norms that were previously implicit: see the section Site Etiquette and Social Norms, especially the bits about Discussion vs Main, politics, and "if you never get voted down, you're not posting enough".
If you think I codified the social norms incorrectly, or you've been thinking they really should be different, please comment! The FAQ seems like a good way to broadcast preferred norms, so I suspect this is an ideal thread to discuss them.
If you've got a suggested change that's nontrivial, I encourage you to create a poll for it here using comments as poll options or HonoreDB's system.
User Orientation Needed
I really could have used a description to help me get the gist of the culture here. I understand that they're gathered around concepts like rationalism, self-improvement and philanthropy, but that didn't give me the practical information I want or tell me anything about how they were going to behave. My observations might be especially useful because I am new, so I still have all of that beginner's disorientation fresh in mind and available to talk about. I offer myself as a case study. These might strike you like: "Yeah! Users are having these problems!' and you'll know I pointed out something good, or, they may be my own unique experiences which are completely useless to the rest of the group. Obviously, you have to use your own judgment and it may take a survey, but the benefit of this would be more unique content, higher quality content, and less frustration for all users and readers of LessWrong. Us new people do not want to annoy you. And you do not want to be annoyed. It's really a win-win if we get a crash course in the top 10 ways to not annoy you. If you put that in our faces so we find it right away, we will probably accommodate you, and everyone will be happier.
For instance, they're a lot more serious here than in a lot of places on the internet. The atmosphere isn't casual. You can't make casual remarks - I see jokes here and there, but otherwise, if you're not putting effort into saying something well-reasoned, unique and high-quality, they're all over you. And your jokes better be good, apparently - I've seen some fail pretty hard.
Part of the reason I joined is because a lot of the discussions I have with people and a lot of what's out there is boring. People are often saying the same old thing. They're making the same old mistakes. They're not thorough, and they're very casual. In a lot of ways, this is not really like an internet forum - it has a lot of important things in common with a peer-reviewed journal. You have to read it really carefully: The details count, and people smack you down if you don't seem to notice them. The messages in posts and articles may, at first SEEM like the same old thing, but quite often, they're not - there's some intelligent twist to it that makes all the difference.
All of that is easy to gloss over when your brain has been lulled into "read boring stuff" mode by some earlier part of your day. People are saying things that at first may seem like the same old mistakes, but they're not. Both myself and other posters here frequently make these kinds of errors - the error of not reading carefully enough, assuming a more common meaning in place of the actual meaning, failing to observe intentional details, mistaking something for a common mistake when it is not one. This is frustrating for everyone, but if there were some introduction to LessWrong that made new users aware that this is a more detail-oriented space full of different and easy to misinterpret ideas, that may encourage them to approach each other's writing with more lucidity and, and highlight how what they're saying is different.
A lot of people here are very intelligent, but seem to require what I would consider to be a condescending degree of pointing out the obvious. I thought it was just me but here's an example of Eliezer doing that:
On Doing The Impossible
In hindsight, I realize that pointing out the obvious to a bunch of mostly intelligent people seems to be required not because they need to hear it, but because they need to see that the poster gets it. In other words, the people here seem unusually likely to assume that you're a moron and so you have to be careful to avoid that. Maybe this is because, like me, they're sick of the same old stuff and it makes them too quick to skim what you're saying, misinterpret it for something more common, and judge. Their brains are in "detecting the morons" mode from an earlier part of their day. Maybe they're simply more outspoken when their moron radars beep. Maybe they've had it up to here with morons and now they're touchy. Whatever it is, it would help to know that people will assume you're a moron if you don't frequently refer to the obvious. It's not clear, otherwise, that a group of mostly intelligent people won't feel condescended to by it, and in fact apparently needs to see you frequently refer to the obvious.
The culture here is very, very honest, very confrontational when it comes to errors in reasoning. That's one of my top five reasons for joining. But it feels a bit tentative, a bit ambiguous. People also react with hurt feelings. I think, when it comes to that, we have to choose. I know what I choose - If the truth is brutal, hurt my feelings, I want to know. I'll be responsible for cleaning up whatever mess it makes of my emotions. I think that's the only way rationalists can go. I would like to see a description that demands honesty - not just mentions "yeah people are more honest here" but DEMANDS honesty. I'll show you what I mean:
I am not an employee of Amazon but a friend showed me their values page and I thought it was inspiring: It states that their employees (referred to as "leaders") are "...obligated to respectfully challenge decisions when they disagree, even when doing so is uncomfortable..." Amazon Leadership Principles
I want to see something just as bold, just as tough as part of the joining agreement. I'm not talking about hiding it in some website policy or rules page everyone ignores. I want to see it right by the join button:
"By pressing this join button, I agree that I am here to improve myself. I understand that my flawed reasoning will be pointed out. My feelings about that will be my own responsibility. I agree also that I will point out flawed reasoning when I see it, no matter whose it is."
In regards to honesty versus manners, the way that people SEEM to be doing it here is "Let reality be brutal if it's needed for you to be clear, but don't make the statement of reality brutal." Most people seem to be good at this, but it's a common problem for people to have no idea how to balance manners with honesty. There are other ways, also, for less bold people, like the one that I use in IRL environments: Hint first (sensitive people get it, and you spare their dignity) then be clear (most people get it) then be brutally honest (slightly dense people get it). If I have to resort to the 2x4, then I really have to decide whether enlightening this person is going to be one of those battles I choose or one of those battles I do not choose.
There are core areas of knowledge that seem to be part of the culture. For instance, AI and cryogenics. I have a sense that these things are common knowledge among LessWrong folks. New people aren't necessarily going to guess what these are. I've seen people being voted down for not knowing a topic well enough when it comes to these subjects that seem to be core interests of the group. The site encourages them to read the sequences, but that's a HUGE investment. Most people are not going to read everything relevant before joining. If newcomers had a limited list of short selections to help them get out of the "newbie" zone on the group's main topics, that would be beneficial to both the older members (who won't have to vote them down / hold their hand / wade through their comments) as well as the newbies (who will feel less confused).
As an initial investment on joining day, I think one page that explains the top ten ways new and old users get frustrated with one another is a reasonable investment for joining day and I think five or ten articles of <=3 pages each on core subjects would be reasonable as an investment in their first weeks of joining - though you could go about this in two ways. You could do that AND aim to hook them with new excerpts from the most fascinating articles. Use that list I was talking about in the "How to get their attention" comment from the web statistics about which articles get the most unique visitors staying longest, and make the front page cycle through those. (Note: Considering how this will interact with search engines is important. I explained that in "Home Page vs Search Engines")
Put it in our faces:
If a new user orientation page is made, this should be easy to find. I'd link it in multiple places - About page, FAQ page, and register page.
This approach is fairly good. It would help if you gave examples. Also, while their is a benefit to public disagreement, sending criticism as a pm can help the recipient save face. I usually do this when pointing out gra... (read more)