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Emile comments on Parenting and Happiness - Less Wrong Discussion

20 Post author: jkaufman 03 October 2012 01:43PM

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Comment author: Emile 03 October 2012 03:39:56PM *  15 points [-]

For what it's worth, I don't think I particularly expected that having a kid would make me happier, and I don't think having more kids will make me happier yet I still plan to.

(and also, if I was convinced that partial lobotomy followed by a life of smoking pot, playing world of warcraft and living off welfare would make me happier, I still wouldn't do it)

Either way this and the finding that older parents are happier suggests a strategy: keep planning to have kids 'very soon', putting it off month after month until you're in your early 30s

There's also a higher risk of more deleterious mutations for men, and low fertility for women.

Comment author: atorm 04 October 2012 12:23:25AM 9 points [-]

Why are you having kids?

Comment author: Emile 05 October 2012 08:10:39AM *  7 points [-]

Because I want to? It's not really easy to figure out the true reasons for why one does something (there's a high probability of rationalization), but probable reasons include:

  • I like kids, and tend to get along with them well
  • it's a nice excuse for being able to play with Legos again
  • I like teaching, and finding games for teaching
  • A sense of social responsibility: if I can afford to raise kids in a better environment than average, I should do so (see also nykos's comment in this thread)
  • My parents, my wife's parents, etc. etc. prefer to have grandkids
  • I'm still relatively young, and know that it's better to have kids early than late (it's easier, the kid has a lower chance of having genetic problems, and we have more energy)
  • I expect that when I'm older, having kids will be more interesting and useful
  • Raising kids is a bit of a challenge

(Yes, some of those reasons could be described as "because it will make me happier")

Comment author: torekp 08 October 2012 12:06:42AM *  5 points [-]

Here's a few more:

  • My wife's an awesome person, there should be more people like her
  • We can probably make this child happy

Parental happiness comes from these factors, but only if you first care about these factors independently of the effect on your happiness.

Comment author: blashimov 18 October 2012 08:53:04PM 0 points [-]

I plan to because I appear to have a very strong reward circuit around children (especially happy children). I quite literally enjoy a child's smile more than any food I have ever eaten, for example.

Comment author: Decius 05 October 2012 02:49:50AM 2 points [-]

What do you want more than you want to be happy? I can understand "I think that a frontal lobotomy would end 'me', and I don't care about the creature that will occupy my body after I die in such a manner.", but that's different in a very key way from what you said.

Comment author: Emile 05 October 2012 08:16:15AM 3 points [-]

Even if it was still "me" (say if you dropped the lobotomy part, but could still convince me that such a life would make me happier), I still wouldn't want it not approve of it.

See Not for the Sake of Happiness (Alone).

Comment author: [deleted] 06 October 2012 11:29:20PM 3 points [-]

Maybe we should taboo “happiness” without adjectives and always precede it by “hedonic” or “eudaimonic”, because I think people usually start to talk at cross purposes during discussions like this one.

Comment author: Decius 05 October 2012 11:43:51PM 1 point [-]

Semi-rhetorical questions:

Do you think that you have significant input into what it is that makes you happy?

Do you think that you can intentionally change what brain hormones are released in response to certain stimuli?

Do you think that you have free will?

Do you think that you can decide what your brain's reactions (micro and macro) to specific stimuli are?

My answer to all four questions is yes, even though I think the rational belief is no. I decide that I will adjust my happiness and my values such that I am made happiest by following my values- and one of the things which I value is the well-being of others. I sidestep all of the difficulty in calculating the well-being of others by simply noticing how I feel about it, and working outward from there.

Comment author: Emile 07 October 2012 08:48:44AM 2 points [-]

Depends of your threshold for "significant"; no; yes; no.

My answer to all four questions is yes, even though I think the rational belief is no.

Shouldn't that be a warning sign? "I believe X, but it's rational to believe not-X" usually means you don't really believe X, but are merely professing it, or you believe you believe it, etc.

Comment author: Decius 07 October 2012 07:53:51PM 1 point [-]

I believe that I am not rational, and that it is rational to be rational. One of those is an observation about reality, and one of those is a logical conclusion.

All four questions are intended to be different statements of the same state-of-universe. Having different answers for them is not supposed to be possible.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 05 October 2012 02:54:32AM 2 points [-]

What do you want more than you want to be happy?

I can't speak for Emile, but... are you suggesting that there's nothing you would choose over your own happiness?

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