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TimS comments on Please don't vote because democracy is a local optimum - Less Wrong Discussion

-9 [deleted] 05 November 2012 08:09PM

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Comment author: TimS 06 November 2012 06:03:08PM 1 point [-]

I think you are confusing object level satisfaction and meta level satisfaction. Despite many policy disagreements throughout the years, the American people have agreed for about 150 years that the current form of government is the one that should govern.

In other words, Americans want a participatory democracy/republic. Voting is an expression of support for that model - thus voting enhances the legitimacy of the current system.

P.S. For cynics and public-choice theorists, I'm not arguing that the United States is a participatory democracy - that's a discussion for another time. I'm only explaining why the act of voting adds legitimacy to the current setup.

Comment author: Xachariah 06 November 2012 09:21:16PM 1 point [-]

Erm, I don't feel you've explained it though. All you've reiterated is that voting is an expression of support for the model, without explaining how that is.

Also consider that voter turnout can be highest when meta level satisfaction is lowest. Voter turnout spikes right before revolutions and civil wars; this is exactly people saying that they consider the system illegitimate and want it scrapped.

Comment author: fubarobfusco 06 November 2012 10:07:38PM 0 points [-]

Also consider that voter turnout can be highest when meta level satisfaction is lowest. Voter turnout spikes right before revolutions and civil wars; this is exactly people saying that they consider the system illegitimate and want it scrapped.

This sounds like a Muhammad Wang fallacy. (Even if Muhammad is the most common given name in the world, and Wang the most common surname, it does not follow that Muhammad Wang is the most common full name.)

Perhaps the people doing the voting and the people doing the revolting are not the same people. The voters may be rationally concerned to hold the system together because they correctly surmise that the revolutionaries are about to tear it apart.

Comment author: Xachariah 06 November 2012 10:44:10PM *  3 points [-]

It seems unlikely that the increases in voter turnout is comprised primarily of people happy with the system. 1930s Germany jumped to 85% participation before it became a fascist state. Iran jumped from 45% turnout in 75 to 90% turnout during the 79 revolution.

There's no room left in the demographic pie for non-voting revolutionaries at the numbers we're talking about.