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Peterdjones comments on Empirical claims, preference claims, and attitude claims - Less Wrong Discussion
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Comments (125)
Subjective things have clear truth conditions: "I like vanilla" is true because I like vanilla. The thing is that they have truth conditions that are indexed to individuals.
You might consider that a clear truth condition, but it would be fairly complex for me to determine whether or not you're lying, or just mistaken. Thus, while it has a truth condition, it's not really a clear one. "Peterdjones professed to like vanilla on 17/11/2012" is much clearer, and I'd say about the limit of what we can objectively say.
You might consider it a clear truth condition, since, we strongly tend not to question such reports by default.
http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Highly_Advanced_Epistemology_101_for_Beginners
You seem deeply confused by what is meant by "truth". Suffice to say, "not questioned by most people" has nothing to do with what I mean by the word.
"if you are not cofused by it, you don't understand it".
You may mean something that floats free of common intutions. I can only wish you the best of luck in arguing a theory of truth from ground zero -- an intuition-free basis.
Empirical truth? I have the intuition that if I can see and touch it, its there. How can I prove that?
Mathematical truth? I have the intution that if you can prove something from intuittivle obvious axioms truth-value-preserving rules of inference, then they are true But why would the axioms be true absent intution? and what's so specual about truth-preservation?
Etc
Etc.
Whole History of Human Thought 101.
I've been assuming troll for a bit, but it seems silly to wager on it since you could just lie to me. Although I suppose to YOU it wouldn't be a lie, since your intuitions on truth make everything you say automatically true. Neat trick, but it doesn't really work when someone can link you to an actual working, usable definition of truth. Maybe you are just very bad at reading? If so, you might want to try a different site. We use a lot of big words here.
I suppose I shouldn't feed you, but I'm finding you a sort of adorable troll. Not that I'll actually be responding further :)
That's not what I am arguing a all. I am only appealing to the widespread idea that a subjects testimony about their own subjective tastes, thougnts, beliefs and preferences is correct by default. I don't think people can subjectivey make 2+2=5, if that needs pointing out.I chose liking vanilla as an example for a reason.
That is a rather ironic comment, given that you have badly misunderstood me.
In case you need help making up your mind, I have added Peterdjones to my ignore list a month or two ago, after realizing the futility of the discussions I had had with him/her before then. Having scanned through what they wrote since, I realize that this was indeed a good choice.
Oooh, I didn't realize there was an ignore list. Thank you indeed :)
Umm, it's in my head :) After years on IRC and online forums I found that this to be a useful way to prevent people from getting under my skin. Once someone is classified as incapable of an intelligent discussion I find the stuff they write not nearly as annoying. YMMV.
Oh, you're the person who doens't believe in reality. I don't mind you ingoring me, but you should really have chat with handoflixue.
Maybe someone could tell me what would be better evidence of what someone thinks or feels than their own reports.
The issue is that just because it is strong evidence may not make it a clear truth condition (although I suspect what one means by "clear truth condition" may be need more detail). But one obvious issue is that observed human behavior can matter a lot. Someone might claim that they really care a lot about the poor, but if they never give to charity or do anything else to assist the poor, their behavior is pretty strong evidence that their report isn't very useful.
Someone's individual behaviour may well be a clear truth condition, in addition to their reports, and it is still subjective because different people behave differently. "Clear truth condition" still does not equate to "objective truth condition".