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Plasmon comments on LW Women: LW Online - Less Wrong Discussion

29 [deleted] 15 February 2013 01:43AM

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Comment author: fubarobfusco 15 February 2013 07:37:54AM *  8 points [-]

How about a third option:

  • Person A : Person B, my model predicted Y because of evidence X. But your experience sounds like ~Y, so I was surprised and want to update. Tell me more about your ~Y experiences!

In other words, consider that the other person possesses evidence that you do not, and invite them to update you instead of trying to update them.

A non-gender example:

Atheist: Pentecostal, my model predicted that people would go home from church feeling bored, guilty, or self-righteous, because former church people I know talk about those experiences, and church people who are active in politics seem to be big on guilt and self-righteousness. But your experience sounds like church is a fun party, that you go home from feeling giddy and high. I was surprised and want to update. Tell me more about your religious experiences!

Comment author: Plasmon 15 February 2013 11:11:56AM 2 points [-]

Indeed I agree that it is possible, and probably desirable, to phrase the argument less bluntly than I did. However, it seems to me that submitter B is arguing against making such arguments at all, not arguing to make them in a more polite fashion.

Furthermore, here of all places, "If you (think you) posses evidence that I do not, show it and update me!" should be a background assumption, not something that needs to be put as a disclaimer on any potentially-controversial statement.

Comment author: Luke_A_Somers 15 February 2013 02:43:02PM 3 points [-]

I rather doubt that submitter B would have had a problem with, "Really? Why? I ask because from out here it seems like you're a thinker."

Certainly the cited reasons for the actual statement being objectionable do not apply to this modified form.

Comment author: Elithrion 16 February 2013 01:27:24AM 0 points [-]

She writes:

If they said they didn't understand, or even that they didn't believe me, that would be workable.

Which I read to mean that she is not opposed to them expressing confusion or saying something like "Huh, you always seemed more like a pure thinker to me." (as opposed to "No way. You're totally a thinker.") It seems precisely how the statement is phrased and how the discussion is conducted that is at issue here.