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Eneasz comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 17, chapter 86 - Less Wrong Discussion

9 Post author: Alsadius 17 December 2012 07:19AM

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Comment author: Eneasz 17 December 2012 10:54:44PM *  10 points [-]

Voldie isn't like any other Legilimens in recorded history. He doesn't need to look you in the eyes, and if your shields are that rusty he'd creep in so softly you'd never notice a thing.

Harry and Quirrell spend a lot of time together, and now we learn that he might not even have to look Harry in the eyes. How much of Harry's brain has Quirrell already mapped out? Perhaps this is why he is always playing "one level above you". Maybe this is why Harry doesn't notice some things he otherwise might.

I'm going to start reading all their conversations assuming that Quirrell can read all of Harry's thoughts in real time the same way we can, and interpret all his statements in light of that. Could be interesting.

Comment author: Locke 18 December 2012 04:00:51AM 15 points [-]

They can't interact magically, so no.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 18 December 2012 07:36:40AM 16 points [-]

This is in fact a major literary reason for the above. :)

Comment author: drethelin 18 December 2012 07:15:20AM 1 point [-]

In canon, Voldemort has extra "legilimency" style power to know harry's thoughts and influence him due to the scar, even though their connection makes it dangerous for the two to touch (at least while he was in Quirrel). Obviously this isn't great evidence, but I think it's relevant.

Comment author: Desrtopa 18 December 2012 04:03:06AM 5 points [-]

Signs of leglimency can be detected, so if Quirrell is leglimizing Harry, he may be risking getting caught.

The fact that Harry has an occlumency teacher who uses leglimency on him in an instructional setting might serve to disguise other people using leglimency on him though. We don't know what kind of evidence checking for leglimency can provide about recency and whether the mind has been accessed by different people.

However, I doubt that Quirrell has been using leglimency on Harry, because there's a point where you're really just giving the antagonist too great an advantage, and if Quirrell has been accessing the contents of Harry's mind undetected, I would have an incredibly hard time buying the protagonists not being completely fucked (tvtropes link.)

Comment author: somervta 19 December 2012 02:07:19AM 0 points [-]

upvoted for tvtropes warning.

Comment author: JamesAndrix 21 December 2012 07:00:52PM 1 point [-]

There is some time resolution.

Albus said heavily, "A person who looked like Madam McJorgenson told us that a single Legilimens had lightly touched Miss Granger's mind some months ago. That is from January, Harry, when I communicated with Miss Granger about the matter of a certain Dementor. That was expected; but what I did not expect was the rest of what Sophie found."

Comment author: Manfred 18 December 2012 06:12:10AM 4 points [-]

I suspect that Voldemort's legilimency though occlumency barriers may have been the same sort as Quirrell's in Ch. 49.

Comment author: pedanterrific 19 December 2012 08:21:32PM 3 points [-]

Oh, you mean a bluff using knowledge gained by other means? That's an interesting thought. Quirrell does do that a lot when we know he couldn't be using Legilimency, doesn't he?

Comment author: drethelin 17 December 2012 11:19:30PM 4 points [-]

He also had this ability before Harry ever started learning occlumency so it would be possible for him to sneak past if anyone could.

Comment author: Benquo 20 December 2012 06:30:05AM *  3 points [-]

"Common sense is often mistaken for Legilimency," said Dumbledore.

Comment author: yobbobandana 20 December 2012 03:44:22AM 3 points [-]

At one point the Defense Professor does give a plausible reason why he might have resolved not to use Legilimency.

From Chapter 74:

His head fell back against the chair, lolled to one side, the eyes no longer meeting Harry's. "But these small games hardly hold my interest as they stand. Add Legilimency, and it ceases to be a game at all."

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