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Desrtopa comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 18, chapter 87 - Less Wrong Discussion

4 Post author: Alsadius 22 December 2012 07:55AM

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Comment author: Desrtopa 04 January 2013 08:27:14PM 1 point [-]

That's true, but when you put in all that time to produce a memory, you're making something that can only be used by one person at a time, albeit an indefinite number of times. A video takes less time and money to reproduce, and can be watched by many people simultaneously.

I don't think viewing a pensieve memory guarantees understanding of the contents. In canon, when Harry first viewed one, his reaction was essentially "what the hell is this?" A star pupil who puts their memories of their classes into a pensieve may not produce something that confers any more comprehension than a video of the lecture. You can't ask a pensieve memory or a video questions when you're confused.

Comment author: gwern 04 January 2013 08:56:25PM -1 points [-]

That's true, but when you put in all that time to produce a memory, you're making something that can only be used by one person at a time, albeit an indefinite number of times. A video takes less time and money to reproduce, and can be watched by many people simultaneously....You can't ask a pensieve memory or a video questions when you're confused.

So you have multiple Pensieves and each student does a different memory at a time, and when they get confused they ask another student No different than books or 'flipped' classrooms.

Comment author: Desrtopa 04 January 2013 09:08:54PM 1 point [-]

If the pensieve memories don't confer greater understanding though, why not just use books instead? They're cheaper.

Comment author: gwern 04 January 2013 09:17:26PM 0 points [-]

Faster (at least in the movies, wasn't a time-speedup implied?), 3D sound & audio, literally immersive, forced attention...

Comment author: Desrtopa 04 January 2013 11:16:00PM 1 point [-]

Faster (at least in the movies, wasn't a time-speedup implied?)

I don't know, I've only watched a couple of them, but I'm pretty sure that it wasn't in the books.

I think wizards can probably produce 3d sound and audio via illusions without needing pensieves anyway.

A pensieve puts you in the memory, so you can't focus on something outside it, but I don't think there's anything that prevents you from zoning out or dozing off in someone else's memory. Of course, in the books, everyone perusing a pensieve memory had enough reason to pay rapt attention that it wasn't an issue.

Comment author: gwern 06 January 2013 12:14:09AM 0 points [-]

I think wizards can probably produce 3d sound and audio via illusions without needing pensieves anyway.

To reuse the argument from silence which everyone is using on the pensieves: we don't see the wizards produce 3D sound and audio via illusions for educational purposes despite the obvious utility in such classes as History of Magic, therefore they cannot.

Comment author: Desrtopa 06 January 2013 12:49:42AM 1 point [-]

We can produce 3D images now, and we don't use them for education even in well funded private schools. Why would we? I disagree that there's obvious utility in using such methods, I don't think it's very likely to improve students' educations.

Comment author: gwern 06 January 2013 01:02:21AM 0 points [-]

Our 3D images cost a fortune to program, for starters, but I can weaken the argument: they don't produce any 2D images with sound either, and we certainly do that a ton.

Comment author: Desrtopa 06 January 2013 01:12:50AM 0 points [-]

They produce moving, talking paintings capable of carrying a conversation. The whole castle is full of them. A wizard painting probably could teach a class.

Also, at least some textbooks in canon contain moving illustrations, and unlike the paintings, we know those are mass produced, and at least one book in the forbidden section of the library in the first book could scream.

I believe newspapers also contain talking images, although I may be remembering movie canon for that.

Comment author: gwern 06 January 2013 01:21:46AM 0 points [-]

The whole castle is full of them. A wizard painting probably could teach a class....and at least one book in the forbidden section of the library in the first book could scream.

I'm glad you're coming around to my conspiracy theory! And let's not forget that Voldemort's diary could teach quite well, it seems.

I believe newspapers also contain talking images, although I may be remembering movie canon for that.

I don't remember them talking; in any case, the photos are even more brainless than portraits.