You're looking at Less Wrong's discussion board. This includes all posts, including those that haven't been promoted to the front page yet. For more information, see About Less Wrong.

shminux comments on New censorship: against hypothetical violence against identifiable people - Less Wrong Discussion

22 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 23 December 2012 09:00PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (457)

You are viewing a single comment's thread.

Comment author: shminux 23 December 2012 10:48:40PM 3 points [-]

Would it censor a discussion of, say, compelling an AI researcher by all means necessary to withhold their research from, say, the military?

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 24 December 2012 02:25:27AM 8 points [-]

Yes. This seems like yet another example of "First of all, it's a bad fucking idea, second of all, talking about it makes everyone else look bad, and third of all, if hypothetically it was actually a good idea you'd still be a fucking juvenile idiot for blathering about it on the public Internet." What part of "You fail conspiracies forever" is so hard for people to understand? Talk like this serves no purpose except to serve as fodder for people who claim that <rationalist idea X> leads to violence and is therefore false, and your comment shall be duly deleted once this policy is put into place.

Comment author: kodos96 24 December 2012 04:21:10AM 1 point [-]

I don't see how this comment even fits the proposed policy, except under a motivatedly-broad reading of "by all means necessary"

Comment author: CarlShulman 24 December 2012 04:46:56AM *  4 points [-]

Wikipedia thinks otherwise:

By any means necessary is a translation of a phrase coined by the French intellectual Jean Paul Sartre in his play Dirty Hands. It entered the popular culture through a speech given by Malcolm X in the last year of his life. It is generally considered to leave open all available tactics for the desired ends, including violence; however, the “necessary” qualifier adds a caveat—if violence is not necessary, then presumably, it should not be used.

Comment author: kodos96 24 December 2012 04:51:41AM -2 points [-]

I was unaware of that connotation. But I don't think it changes the equation. There's a million different ways to interpret "by all means necessary", the vast majority of which would not be construed to include violence. If this were a forum in which Satre/Malcolm X references were the norm, then that would be different. But it isn't.

Comment author: Nick_Tarleton 24 December 2012 05:12:23AM 19 points [-]

I and the one person currently in the room with me immediately took "by all means necessary" to suggest violence. I think you're in a minority in how you interpret it.

Comment author: kodos96 24 December 2012 05:19:18AM 14 points [-]

OK, I'll update on that.

Comment author: Decius 26 December 2012 09:15:10PM 2 points [-]

"By all means necessary" very much means "don't hesitate to use violence". When that phrase isn't required to grant sanction to violence (as when used in military orders), it instead gives sanction to whatever acts aren't already implied (such as the violation of military protocol and/or use of prohibited weapons/tactics).

Comment author: ciphergoth 24 December 2012 12:48:14PM 2 points [-]

Just checked with my houseguest; his interpretation is also "a call to violence".