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buybuydandavis comments on Morality Isn't Logical - Less Wrong Discussion

19 Post author: Wei_Dai 26 December 2012 11:08PM

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Comment author: buybuydandavis 27 December 2012 11:14:48PM 1 point [-]

Thank you, that's a good start.

Yes, I had concluded that EY was anti retribution. Hadn't concluded that he had carried the day on that point.

Moral responsibility - the idea that choosing evil causes you to deserve pain - is fundamentally a human idea that we've all adopted for convenience's sake. (23).

I don't think vengeance and retribution are "ideas" that people had to come up with - they're central moral motivations. "A social preference for which we punish violators" gets at 80% of what morality is about.

Some may disagree about the intuition, but I'd note that even EY had to "renounce" all hatred, which implies to me that he had the impulse for hatred (retribution, in this context) in the first place.

This seems like it has makings of an interesting poll question.

Comment author: Solvent 28 December 2012 04:27:19AM 0 points [-]

This seems like it has makings of an interesting poll question.

I agree. Let's do that. You're consequentialist, right?

I'd phrase my opinion as "I have terminal value for people not suffering, including people who have done something wrong. I acknowledge that sometimes causing suffering might have instrumental value, such as imprisonment for crimes."

How do you phrase yours? If I were to guess, it would be "I have a terminal value which says that people who have caused suffering should suffer themselves."

I'll make a Discussion post about this after I get your refinement of the question?

Comment author: ArisKatsaris 28 December 2012 01:18:25PM *  0 points [-]

I'd suggest the following two phrasings:

  • I place terminal value to retribution (inflicting suffering on the causers of suffering), at least for some of the most egregious cases.
  • I do not place terminal value to retribution, not even for the most egregious cases (e.g. mass murderers). I acknowledge that sometimes it may have instrumental value.

Perhaps also add a third choice:

  • I think I place terminal value to retribution, but I would prefer it if I could self-modify so that I wouldn't.
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