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gjm comments on The Zeroth Skillset - Less Wrong Discussion

48 Post author: katydee 30 January 2013 12:46PM

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Comment author: gjm 31 January 2013 10:55:10AM 3 points [-]

Among the outcomes I care about is having other people not get screwed over. Shunning them because other things have gone badly for them contributes to not achieving such outcomes.

Another outcome I care about is associating with people who are interesting, good company, useful to me, etc. Shunning broadly-defined groups that contain many such people, when there are narrower groups whose shunning would be just as effective, contributes to not achieving such outcomes.

A policy of avoiding dangerous-seeming people seems very reasonable, especially if it's applied flexibly. (One might, e.g., have a close and dearly loved family member who is dangerous, or an important business connection with someone dangerous. Personal safety is good but not the only thing that matters.) I think it's very likely that "seems dangerous to me", fuzzy though it is, is a much more accurate heuristic for identifying dangerous people than "is poor", and that the same is true for most people here.

Comment author: RomeoStevens 31 January 2013 11:02:49AM -1 points [-]

It's a heuristic, not an algorithm for safety.

Comment author: gjm 31 January 2013 04:05:14PM 1 point [-]

"A heuristic, not an algorithm": what difference are you intending to convey? (I wasn't trying to suggest that you think avoiding poor people gives some kind of guarantee, or anything like that. A heuristic is what I took you to be saying it was. For me, at least, a heuristic is a kind of algorithm.)

"Not ... for safety": do you mean that there are other purposes to it besides safety? OK, fair enough (though your presentation of this "skill" here has been all about safety) but I don't think it makes a difference to what I'm saying: safety together with the other things you intend this to achieve are still not the only things that matter, and I gravely doubt that the broad-brush policy of avoiding poor people is a great way of achieving those other things (by comparison with less-simplistic heuristics) -- though on that point I'm prepared to be convinced.

Comment author: RomeoStevens 31 January 2013 06:28:36PM *  0 points [-]

A heuristic is a fuzzy set of principles that are correlated with the outcomes you want. An algorithm is a set of directions that give you the outcome you want. When I say "avoiding poor people is a heuristic" I mean that it is the high level abstraction of a bunch of low level behaviors in various situations.

Comment author: gjm 31 January 2013 09:01:10PM 0 points [-]

Something can be an algorithm despite not necessarily giving you exactly the outcome you want. Hence approximation algorithms and probabilistic algorithms.

Comment author: RomeoStevens 31 January 2013 09:15:34PM *  0 points [-]

Edit: the boundaries between algorithms and heuristics are complicated. Colloquial usage referring to heuristics as something like "rules of thumb" and algorithms as "a set of directions" is what was intended.