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Emile comments on Politics Discussion Thread January 2013 - Less Wrong Discussion

6 Post author: OrphanWilde 02 January 2013 03:31AM

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Comment author: Alsadius 02 January 2013 10:17:06AM *  1 point [-]

Let's get a bit meta. I posit that there are certain political discussions where rational debate is entirely useless, because they largely consist of choosing an axiom. Abortion is the most obvious of these - people who believe the right to life begins at conception(usually for religious reasons) are almost universally pro-life, and people who do not are almost universally pro-choice. It is not possible, even in principle, to convince either side of the other's position, because there's no argument that can change an axiom.

It's good to keep our limitations in mind.

Edit: To clarify, I don't claim that rational debate is useless at discussing issues around abortion, I claim it's useless at changing the minds of someone who has a strong position on the issue. The only people I have ever seen switch sides on this issue are politicians(who are obviously lying) and religious converts(which is in principle achievable from rationalism, but which is in practice a pretty rare result).

Comment author: Emile 02 January 2013 05:12:36PM 2 points [-]

For a better example of a case where rational debate is useless, I'd take an exiled Tibetan and a Chinese Nationalist debating about the status of Tibet.

Comment author: Alsadius 03 January 2013 05:31:31AM 0 points [-]

I think that's somewhat more amenable to rationality - the "Screw Tibet, free China!" bumper sticker I once saw comes to mind here. But I mostly picked abortion because it's the most prominent such example and the one I've thought most about, not because it's necessarily the best illustration.