Open Thread, February 1-14, 2013

OpenThreadGuy

If it's worth saying, but not worth its own post, even in Discussion, it goes here.

It is ok and not at all inappropriate to seek help here.

I think it is. We are not suicide experts, we know nothing about how to help, and our attempts to help can easily backfire. And this is assuming that we are not being trolled, attacked, or drama queened (anyone can say that they have contributions under another account). Let us recall that pdf23ds asked for LW help with his sleep problems which did nothing, and LWers attempting to follow up on his posted suicide note apparently did not solve the problem.

The big sites like Wikipedia generally have a policy of:

not encouraging amateurs to engage in therapy-over-the-internet and other-optimization
having the admins escalate to looking up IP addresses and contacting locals
providing the concerned user with a suicide hotline number

I don't see any reason that this should not be implemented on LW as well.

We are not suicide experts, we know nothing about how to help, and our attempts to help can easily backfire.

This sounds to me like taking the precautionary principle too far. Shouldn't we do an expected value calculation? I imagine the folks at Wikipedia had a few incidents of people being helped with their depression and killing themselves subsequently (possibly as a result of the help they received), then Wikipedia was like "What should we do? How about a don't-talk-with-suicidal-people policy?" without looking at the other, much more obs... (read more)

3Epiphany13y

These are good points, Gwern, but the psychology industry and suicide hotlines fail a lot more often than you'd think (support for this point is included). If Slade has not tried them, they may still be useful for Slade. It is also possible that Slade has tried a few different psychologists, a few different prescriptions, and a few different hotlines without relief. Here are a few problems that one may run into when attempting to utilize the standard forms of help: Note to Slade: You may not want to read this. This is for people who don't have a clue why anybody would be asking here. It consists of a list of problems. It's useful for the purpose it's serving, but not particularly uplifting for a person in your situation. I'm writing you a separate response. 1. Psychologists failing to practice science. I'm sure you, Gwern, are aware how common this is but I'll include a link for others. 2. Prescription drugs to treat moods not working. (See "A link for others".) 3. Prescription drugs to treat moods causing intolerable side effects. (The FDA doesn't approve drugs based on them being safe. It approves them based on whether the problem caused by the drugs is better or worse than the original affliction. I will use tardive dyskinesia, a neurological disorder resulting in involuntary body movements like repeatedly sticking one's tongue out, as my example. Anti-psychotics can cause it.) 4. If Slade is gifted (not unlikely according to these numbers and Slade may have a 50% chance of not knowing ("about half of our country's (America) gifted students are never identified")) then they may find themselves being misdianosed with disorders they don't have (happens to 25% of the gifted population (Citation: Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis of Gifted Children and Adults) let alone the portion of the gifted population which actually shows up in a psychologist's office). 5. If Slade is gifted, they might find that getting help from a psychologist who does not specialize in g

6Tripitaka13y

While I agree in general, I do think such guidelines and agreements are best discussed in a quiet, separate thread, with explicit agreement of the concerned Mods, and not in response to an "emergency" call for help. In this instance, I am very glad that Slade did manage to call for help this way.

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Open Thread, February 1-14, 2013

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Open Thread, February 1-14, 2013

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