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Antisuji comments on How to offend a rationalist (who hasn't thought about it yet): a life lesson - Less Wrong Discussion

9 Post author: mszegedy 06 February 2013 07:22AM

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Comment author: Antisuji 06 February 2013 07:39:57AM 8 points [-]

"Sorry if it offends you, I just don't think in general that you should apply this stuff to society. Like... no."

I felt offended reading this, even though I was expecting something along these lines and was determined not to be offended. I've come to interpret this feeling, on a 5-second level, as "Uh oh, someone's attacking my group." I'm sure I'd be a little flustered if someone said that to me in conversation. But after some time to think about it, I think my response would be "Why shouldn't math be applied to social justice?" And I really would be curious about the answer, if only because it would help me better understand people who hold this kind of viewpoint.

Also, I expect there are good reasons why it's dangerous to apply math to social justice, especially since most people aren't good at math.

Comment author: mszegedy 06 February 2013 07:59:58AM 0 points [-]

Well, the friend had counterexamples to "math as a basis for society is good". I sort of skipped over that. They mentioned those who rationalized bad things like racism, and also Engels. (We both agree that communism is not a successful philosophy.) Counterexamples aren't really enough to dismiss an idea unless they're stronger than the evidence that the idea is good, but I couldn't think of such evidence at the time, and I still can't think of anything particularly convincing. There's no successful society to point at that derived all of its laws and givernment axiomatically.

Comment author: Luke_A_Somers 06 February 2013 04:42:58PM 9 points [-]

Those are good examples that you need to be really careful applying math to society.

If you come up with a short list of axioms for a social group, and then use them to formulate policy, you're probably going to end up leaving the domain over which those axioms are valid. If you have a lot of power, this can be a really bad thing.