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sunflowers comments on What truths are actually taboo? - Less Wrong Discussion

4 Post author: sunflowers 16 April 2013 11:40PM

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Comment author: sunflowers 17 April 2013 01:06:24AM 2 points [-]

Again, the emphasis of the post is "obvious truths." But yes, I think the reaction to Summers' talk was atypical. Gender differences and IQ and women in mathematics are standard topics in introductory psych textbooks. I think the reaction to his talk was deplorable, but I think that a big part of the explanation here has to do with "former administration official" and "university president." People with these titles are subject to stricter rules.

Comment author: Qiaochu_Yuan 17 April 2013 01:10:02AM 8 points [-]

It is no longer clear to me what you mean by "taboo." Can you, erm, taboo this?

Comment author: amacfie 17 April 2013 03:13:45AM 1 point [-]

Any particular reason why you write "erm" even though (I assume) you don't have a British accent?

Comment author: arundelo 17 April 2013 03:23:48AM *  5 points [-]

I had been reading this (and its more common cousin "er") for years before I saw someone point out that they're just different spellings of "um" and "uh". Edit: Not different pronunciations (modulo the difference in accent), for anyone who doesn't know what amacfie and I are on about.

Comment author: randallsquared 17 April 2013 03:06:48PM 4 points [-]

...but people (around me, at least, in the DC area) do say "Er..." literally, sometimes. It appears to be pronounced that way when the speaker wants to emphasize the pause, as far as I can tell.

Comment author: amacfie 17 April 2013 06:40:15PM 2 points [-]

I hear "er", literally (rhotically), quite infrequently and I always assumed that people said it that way because of seeing "er" in written English and not knowing that it was intended to be pronounced "uh"; similarly, I've heard "arg" spoken by people who thought "argh" from written English was pronounced that way.

Comment author: arundelo 17 April 2013 06:57:46PM *  2 points [-]

In my previous commented I restrained myself from linking to Ant Phillips's Um & Aargh but now you've given me sufficient excuse. (The chorus sounds to my American ears like "um and ah".)

Edit: Grumble grumble Markdown parser bug grumble grumble.

Comment author: randallsquared 17 April 2013 07:53:12PM 1 point [-]

...but "argh" is pronounced that way... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOlKRMXvTiA :) Since the late 90s, at least.

Comment author: westward 17 April 2013 05:19:13AM 2 points [-]

'My reading of the use of "erm" here is as a replacement for "my repetition of the word taboo seems awkward in this context (since the point is we don't share a mutual understanding of the word) but I don't know a better word of phrasing this".

Do the British commonly use "erm"? I didn't know that.

Comment author: fortyeridania 17 April 2013 01:30:51PM 4 points [-]

I think you may have missed the point. "Erm" is just a British spelling of what Americans would spell "um." The pronunciations are quote close. (Similarly, British writers use "er" where Americans would write "uh.")

Comment author: MugaSofer 18 April 2013 08:55:36PM -1 points [-]

Really? I've always considered those distinct sounds, but then I read a lot from both sides of the Atlantic as a kid.

Comment author: fortyeridania 28 April 2013 07:45:18AM *  1 point [-]

Here's some evidence.

I think the recordings at those pages are misleading, because they're all from a US speaker. The phonetic markings are what to look at.

Comment author: MugaSofer 29 April 2013 08:40:37AM *  -1 points [-]

Um ... evidence?

er

pronounced: /ɜː/

etymology: copying the sound people make when hesitating.

uh

pronounced: /ʌː/

No listed etymology, but attached to a list of such sounds from various languages.

erm

pronunciation: no phonetic markings listed; recording only.

no etymology listed, but attached to an entirely different list of such sounds in other languages.

um

pronounciation: /ʊm/

etymology:

From Middle English, from Old Norse um, umb (“around, about”), from Proto-Germanic *umbi (“around”), from Proto-Indo-European *ambʰi- (“by, around”). Cognate with Old English ymbe (“around”). More at umbe.

Also, I've ignored the recordings - I actually can't listen to them on this computer - but why would there be a mispronounced pronunciation guide? I mean, wouldn't people who aren't US speakers correct it, if they knew better? I'm not a US speaker, and I would.

ETA: apparently "hum" may come from the old English version of this - from which we also get um and hmm. Or something.

Comment author: SilasBarta 17 April 2013 04:19:50PM 1 point [-]

Exactly. As an American, I obviously prefer "er" instead.

Comment author: Qiaochu_Yuan 17 April 2013 04:08:18AM 2 points [-]

It's more fun? I dunno.