= 27d567bc2d48d9f40e9ccc20ea370b15)
DanielLC comments on How should negative externalities be handled? (Warning: politics) - Less Wrong Discussion
You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.
= 783df68a0f980790206b9ea87794c5b6)
Loading…= b715d02e85f7b3b4ae65ca3d3e450868)
Subscribe to RSS Feed
Powered by Reddit
= f037147d6e6c911a85753b9abdedda8d)
You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.
Comments (131)
In other words, let the government sell it to the public.
Since they're taxing the public anyway, they could reimburse it just by letting the public pay that much less taxes. This is exactly the same as what would happen if they used it for revenue, and decreased taxes because they don't need as much revenue.
More of a leasing scheme with respect to land. You get it as long as you pay your taxes on it. Which is largely the way it is now.
The difference isn't about stopping global warming or funding government, it's about justice. If there is a commons that everyone has equal right to use, those that do use it owe compensation to those who don't, not the government. The funding mechanism is a separate issue from this basic issue of justice. The government is collecting what is owed by some parties to others; that doesn't give it a license to keep as much of it as it wants.
It works out the same either way. Loans and investment act as a way to exchange present money and future money, so charging present money vs. future money makes about the same difference as charging USD vs. euros.
If they're charging enough taxes to offset the value of the land, then that means that the price of buying land would be zero. You will pay the full cost with taxes.
But there is no difference. The money gets passed around exactly the same in either case. Is it really more just to give someone a reimbursement then immediately take it back as taxes than to do nothing?
It has the license to just take what it wants in the form of taxes. I would expect that to work as a license to keep what it wants.
No, the money does not get passed around the same way.
The homeless guy living under a bridge has no property, Homeless guy doesn't get taxed on land, Bill does, divide Bill's taxes between Bill and homeless guy, and homeless guy ends up with a check that he doesn't get now.
Homeless guy has no income and no wealth to tax for the support of government. I guess with a head tax, we could make the result the same. We could find ways to make the result the same, but we'd really have to be going out of our way to do it.
Perhaps from you, but not from me. That is largely what political arguments are about in the US these days.
If you're assuming that taxes are otherwise just a constant portion of your income, or really any tax system that's specified to be the same in both cases, then there is a difference. However, the two systems are the same modulo tax method. In other words, in one case the homeless guy gets money from Bull's land, and in the other he gets money from welfare.
I don't understand.
Nope, not the same with the addition of welfare either. People on welfare often face effective tax rates in excess of 100% - if they start working and making money, they lose benefits worth more than their incremental income.
Perhaps the government has such license from you, but they don't have it from me, or a great many other people.
That is a problem with how welfare is currently done. It would still be welfare if they didn't do it like that. I'd just implement it as taxes going into the negatives.
So, they're not allowed to collect income tax from you?
Yes, if it were very different than what it is, it could the same as something it currently is different from.
Here's what you said originally:
Here's my response:
Your last question just doesn't follow at all. Where did I suggest they're not allowed to collect income tax from me?
My point is, they're allowed to do taxes and welfare however they want. Unless you're suggesting limiting their power in that regard, the difference between something you consider just and something you consider unjust is something you are okay with them doing.
There seems to be a misunderstanding here. The government is allowed to take income tax from you. Since they are already allowed to take money from you, it doesn't much matter if they're allowed to withhold giving something to you.
Looking at the rest of the conversation, it's possible you were referring to the fact that they can only take income tax if you have an income, so your version is essentially different in that it establishes a minimum amount that the government has to do for poor people.