You're looking at Less Wrong's discussion board. This includes all posts, including those that haven't been promoted to the front page yet. For more information, see About Less Wrong.

lukstafi comments on Is a paperclipper better than nothing? - Less Wrong Discussion

6 Post author: DataPacRat 24 May 2013 07:34PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (116)

You are viewing a single comment's thread.

Comment author: lukstafi 25 May 2013 10:06:34AM 4 points [-]

If the paperclipper is very, very stable, then no paperclipper is better because of higher probability of life->sentience->personhood arising again. If paperclipper is a realistic sapient system, then chances are it will evolve out of paperclipping into personhood, and then the question is whether in expectation it will evolve faster than life otherwise would. Even if by assumption personhood does not arise again, it still depends on particulars, I pick the scenario with more interesting dynamics. If by assumption even life does not arise again, paperclipper has more interesting dynamics.

Comment author: falenas108 25 May 2013 05:57:31PM 1 point [-]

What mechanism would a paperclipper have for developing out of a paperclipper? If it has the terminal goal of increasing paperclips, then it will never self-modify to anything that will result in it creating less paperclips, even if under its new utility function it wouldn't care about that.

Or: If A -> B -> C, and the paperclipper does not want C, then paperclipper will not go to B.

Comment author: lukstafi 25 May 2013 06:19:14PM *  0 points [-]

I'm imagining that the paperclipper will become a massively distributed system, with subunits pursuing subgoals, groups of subunits will be granted partial agency due to long-distance communication constraints, and over eons value drift will occur due to mutation. ETA: the paperclipper will be counteracting value drift, but will also pursue fastest creation of paperclips and avoiding extintion, which can be at a trade-off with value drift.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 25 May 2013 06:29:15PM *  6 points [-]

over eons value drift will occur due to mutation

There is no random mutation in properly stored digital data. Cryptographic hashes (given backups) completely extinguish the analogy with biological mutation (in particular, the exact formulation of original values can be preserved indefinitely, as in to the end of time, very cheaply). Value drift can occur only as a result of bad decisions, and since not losing paperclipping values is instrumentally valuable to a paperclipper, it will apply its superintelligence to ensuring that such errors don't happen, and I expect will succeed.

Comment author: lukstafi 25 May 2013 06:49:37PM *  1 point [-]

Then my parent comment boils down to: prefer the paperclipper only under the assumption that life would not have a chance to arise. ETA: my parent comment included the uncertainty in assessing the possibility of value drift in the "equation".

Comment author: Viliam_Bur 26 May 2013 01:05:25PM 0 points [-]

Well, the paperclip maximizer may be imperfect in some aspect.

Maybe it didn't research cryptography, because at given time making more paperclips seemed like a better choice than researching cryptography. (All intelligent agents may at some moment face a choice between developing an abstract theory with uncertain possible future gains vs pursuing their goals more directly; and they may make a wrong choice.)

Comment author: gwern 26 May 2013 05:13:30PM 3 points [-]

The crypto here is a bit of a red herring; you want that in adversarial contexts, but a paperclipper may not necessarily optimize much for adversaries (the universe looks very empty). However, a lot of agents are going to research error-checking and correction because you simply can't build very advanced computing hardware without ECC somewhere in it - a good chunk of every hard drive is devoted to ECC for each sector and discs like DVD/BDs have a lot of ECC built in as well. And historically, ECC either predates the most primitive general-purpose digital computers (scribal textual checks) or closely accompanies them (eg. Shannon's theorem), and of course we have a lot of natural examples (the redundancy in how DNA codons code for amino acids turns out to be highly optimized in an ECC sense).

So, it seems pretty probable that ECC is a convergent instrumental technique.

Comment author: lukstafi 30 May 2013 06:10:33PM *  2 points [-]