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Larks comments on Do Earths with slower economic growth have a better chance at FAI? - Less Wrong Discussion

30 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 12 June 2013 07:54PM

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Comment author: Larks 12 June 2013 09:47:32PM 3 points [-]

It also explains why the dot com boom had to burst,

Comment author: Viliam_Bur 13 June 2013 08:22:40AM *  6 points [-]

why Charles Babbage never built his Analytical Engine,

why Archimedes was killed, and Antikythera mechanism drowned in the sea,

why most children in our culture hate maths, and why internet is mostly used for chatting, games, and porn.

Comment author: gjm 13 June 2013 11:02:02AM *  23 points [-]

It unfortunately also explains

  • why Alan Turing never published his work on the theory of computation
  • why all the projects in the 1950s aimed at making general-purpose computers got cancelled for complex political reasons no one understood
  • why that big earthquake killed everyone at the Dartmouth Conference, tragically wiping out almost the entire nascent field of AI
  • why all attempts at constructing integrated circuits mysteriously failed
  • why progress abruptly stopped following Moore's law in the early 1980s
  • why no one has ever been able to make computer systems capable of beating grandmasters at chess, questioning Jeopardy answers, searching huge databases of information, etc.
Comment author: RolfAndreassen 13 June 2013 05:22:13PM 4 points [-]

All of which are true in other possible worlds, which for all we know may have a greater amplitude than ours. That we are alive does not give us any information on how probable we are, because we can't observe the reference class. For all we know, we're one of those worlds that skate very, very close to the edge of disaster, and the two recessions of the aughts are the only thing that have kept us alive; but those recessions were actually extremely unlikely, and the "mainline" branches of humanity, the most probable ones, are alive because the Cuban War of 1963 set the economy back to steam and horses. (To be sure, they have their problems, but UFAI isn't among them.)

Note that, if you take many-worlds seriously, then in branches where UFAI is developed, there will still be some probability of survival due to five cosmic rays with exactly the right energies hitting the central CPU at just the right times and places, causing SkyNet to divide by zero instead of three. But the ones who survive due to that event won't be very probable humans. :)

Comment author: ciphergoth 13 June 2013 12:34:19PM 2 points [-]

If most copies of me died in the shooting but I survived, I should expect to find that I survived for only one reason, not for multiple independent reasons. Perhaps the killer's gun jammed at the crucial moment, or perhaps I found a good place to hide, but not both.

Comment author: gjm 13 June 2013 03:11:05PM 0 points [-]

On the other hand, if you are being shot at repeatedly and survive a long time, you should expect there to be lots of reasons (or one reason with very broad scope -- maybe everyone's guns were sabotaged in a single operation, or maybe they've been told to let you live, or a god is looking out for you). And it's only in that sort of situation that anthropic "explanations" would be in any way sensible.

It's always true enough to say "well, of course I find myself still alive because if I weren't I wouldn't be contemplating the fact that I'm still alive". But most of the time this is really uninteresting. Perhaps it always is.

The examples given in this thread seem to me to call out for anthropic explanations to much the same extent as does the fact that I'm over 40 years old and not dead yet.

Comment author: khafra 14 June 2013 11:17:53AM 1 point [-]

This just prompted me to try to set a subjective probability that quantum immortality works, so e.g. if I remember concluding that it was 5% likely at 35 and find myself still alive at 95, I will believe in quantum immortality (going by SSA tables).

I'm currently finding this subjective probability too creepy to actually calculate.

Comment author: gjm 14 June 2013 12:12:50PM 0 points [-]

I suggest giving some thought first to exactly what "believing in quantum immortality" really amounts to.

Comment author: khafra 14 June 2013 01:22:26PM 0 points [-]

To me, it means expecting to experience the highest-weighted factorization of the hamiltonian that contains a conscious instantiation of me, no matter how worse-than-death that branch may be.

Comment author: gjm 14 June 2013 02:46:39PM 1 point [-]

I think you should analyse further. Expecting conditional on still being alive? Surely you expect that even without "quantum immortality". Expecting to find yourself still alive, and experience that? Again, what exactly do you mean by that? What does it mean to expect to find yourself still alive? (Presumably not that others will expect to find you still alive in any useful sense, because with that definition you don't get q.i.)

I expect there are Everett branches in which you live to 120 as a result of a lot of good luck (or, depending on what state you're in, bad luck). Almost equivalently, I expect there's a small but nonzero probability that you live to 120 as a result of a lot of luck. { If you live to 120 / In those branches where you live to 120 } you will probably have experienced a lot of surprising things that enabled your survival. None of this is in any way dependent on quantum mechanics, still less on the many-worlds interpretation.

It seems to me that "believing in quantum immortality" is a matter of one's own values and interpretive choices, much more than of any actual beliefs about how the world is. But I may be missing something.

Comment author: khafra 14 June 2013 03:34:42PM 0 points [-]

I should perhaps be more clear that I'm not distinguishing between "MWI and functionalism are true" and "quantum immortality works." That is, if "I" consciously experience dying, and my consciouness ceases, but "I" go on experiencing things in other everett branches, I'm counting that as QI.

Expecting conditional on still being alive? Surely you expect that even without "quantum immortality"...What does it mean to expect to find yourself still alive?

I'm currently making observations consistent with my own existence. If I stop making that kind of observation, I consider that no longer being alive.

Going again with the example of a 35 year old: Conditional on having been born, I have a 96% chance of still being alive. So whatever my prior on QI, that's far less than a decibel of evidence in favor of it. Still, ceteris paribus, it's more likely than it was at age 5.

Comment author: wedrifid 14 June 2013 03:08:08PM 0 points [-]

It seems to me that "believing in quantum immortality" is a matter of one's own values and interpretive choices, much more than of any actual beliefs about how the world is.

You are correct.

Comment author: Luke_A_Somers 13 June 2013 03:00:27PM 8 points [-]

If Charles Babbage had built his analytic engine, then that would seem to me to have gotten programming started long earlier, such that FAI work would in turn start much sooner, and so we'd have no hardware overhang to worry about. Imagine if this conversation were taking place with 1970's technology.