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drethelin comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 21, chapters 91 & 92 - Less Wrong Discussion

4 Post author: NancyLebovitz 04 July 2013 11:49AM

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Comment author: RolfAndreassen 04 July 2013 08:11:58PM 5 points [-]

Obliviating the whole of Hermione's existence seems counterproductively difficult: She lived in Muggle Britain for 11 years. Are they going to Obliviate all the neighbours and relatives who remember her and might ask casually how she is doing at school? As for Obliviating the memory that she's dead, then why tell them in the first place? It is not clear what sort of memory eradication could be usefully applied. Maybe a False Memory of her dying in some sort of sports accident, rather than being half-eaten? But again, in that case, why tell them the actual truth?

Comment author: drethelin 04 July 2013 11:07:40PM 10 points [-]

This happened in Canon, and was done by Hermione herself, albeit in her I think 6th or 7th year.

Comment author: wubbles 05 July 2013 12:11:01AM 2 points [-]

Hermione didn't erase her own existence, but implanted false memories to get her parents to go to Australia. Distance did what magic couldn't.

Comment author: Intrism 05 July 2013 12:18:41AM 8 points [-]

Actually, she did both of those things. And, incidentally, it's the false memories bit that would be impossible in Methods - Hermione, of course, did not spend years to give her parents what are apparently years worth of memories.

Comment author: Gurkenglas 12 July 2013 02:18:11PM 1 point [-]

It's only perfect, undetectable Memory Charms that require that much time. Giving someone years of memories in the quality that is customary for years-old memories, when no Wizard has anything against it, is probably not that difficult.

Comment author: RolfAndreassen 04 July 2013 11:53:15PM 2 points [-]

Well. I stand by the criticism. Either Hermione, or Rowling, wasn't thinking things through.

Comment author: JoshuaZ 12 July 2013 03:02:21PM 0 points [-]

Well, in Hermione's case, she may not wanted to give her parents that level of grief. Although frankly, I'd rather remember a loved one who I think died then not remember them at all, and I suspect that Hermione would think the same way. So canon Hermione likely didn't really think this through. (Frankly, the first time I read what she did to her parents, I was absolutely appalled- I don't think Rowling really appreciates how absolutely insidious and violating memory modification is.)

Comment author: TimS 12 July 2013 03:31:55PM *  2 points [-]

I distantly recall that canon!Hermione was trying to remove her parents as potential hostages / revenge targets. I think the goal was to get them to Australia without violating the Statute of Secrecy. This doesn't make sense, now that I think about it - her parents already knew she was a witch, why is telling them about the war a violation of secrecy. Updating towards my memory being wrong.

Even assuming my memory is right, I agree with you that Rowling's reasoning is disturbing. There are so many other ways to protect the information in canon (eg Fidelius), yet Rowling picks the least consensual, least possible to give informed consent method.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 13 July 2013 04:05:30AM 0 points [-]

I distantly recall that canon!Hermione was trying to remove her parents as potential hostages / revenge targets. I think the goal was to get them to Australia without violating the Statute of Secrecy. This doesn't make sense, now that I think about it - her parents already knew she was a witch, why is telling them about the war a violation of secrecy.

I suspect this is because they wouldn't voluntarily abandon their daughter, this was her way of pulling a more hero than thou on them.