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HungryHippo comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 25, chapter 96 - Less Wrong Discussion

6 Post author: NancyLebovitz 25 July 2013 04:36AM

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Comment author: ChristianKl 28 July 2013 03:35:25PM 5 points [-]

Isn't the fact that people like Dumbledore don't invest significant amount of time into thinking about ressurection a sign that they really do believe in life after death?

Comment author: HungryHippo 28 July 2013 05:38:22PM 4 points [-]

It could also be evidence that they don't like thinking about death. (Which inference you prefer depends on your own level of Quirrellness.)

Comment author: Rukifellth 28 July 2013 07:15:57PM 1 point [-]

Dumbledore feels no fear from the Dementor's presence- only fatigue and slight ache. If he didn't like thinking about death, the Dementor ought to have affected him more sharply.

Comment author: HungryHippo 28 July 2013 09:21:06PM *  3 points [-]

Harry to Dumbledore in Ch. 39:

"... look within the part of yourself that flees not from death but from the fear of death, that finds that fear so unbearable that it will embrace Death as a friend and cozen up to it, try to become one with the night so that it can think itself master of the abyss. You have taken the most terrible of all evils and called it good! With only a slight twist that same part of yourself would murder innocents, and call it friendship. If you can call death better than life then you can twist your moral compass to point anywhere -"

Comment author: Kindly 28 July 2013 09:35:16PM 8 points [-]

I think it's pretty clear that Harry doesn't have a good model of Dumbledore's beliefs at this point. Later on he figures out that:

Dumbledore really wasn't afraid of death. Dumbledore honestly, truly believed that death was the next great adventure. Believed it in his core, not just as convenient words used to suppress cognitive dissonance, not just pretending to be wise.

Comment author: HungryHippo 28 July 2013 09:57:48PM 2 points [-]

Good point! I missed that one.

Comment author: BlindIdiotPoster 29 July 2013 04:11:03AM 0 points [-]

When does he say this?

Comment author: ArisKatsaris 29 July 2013 06:13:35AM *  2 points [-]

Chapter 56

Comment author: Rukifellth 28 July 2013 09:34:17PM 1 point [-]

Dumbledore believes in an afterlife, and unlike in the the Muggle world of non-magic, the idea is significantly harder to dismiss.

Comment author: hairyfigment 29 July 2013 09:42:19PM 2 points [-]

I thought this was the point Harry got right. Dumbledore says:

I have seen and done a great many things, too many of which I wish I had never seen or done. And yet I do not regret being alive, for watching my students grow is a joy that has not begun to wear on me. But I would not wish to live so long that it does! What would you do with eternity, Harry?

He doesn't talk like he has a model of reality in which he continues to exist forever. If anything, he sounds tired (and like he correctly expects to get more tired of being who he is). Now, in principle he could have a strong expectation of radical change that makes the next life wholly unlike this one, so that his objection to eternity does not apply. But why expect him to expect this? (And if, say, he does not expect most of his memories to carry forward, then in what sense does he expect to survive?)

Comment author: Rukifellth 29 July 2013 11:54:32PM 0 points [-]

We might ask transhumanists the same question.

Comment author: linkhyrule5 30 July 2013 12:00:00AM 0 points [-]

Ah, but a transhumanist who wants to survive has a) precedent (consider the difference between 1700 and 2000, for example), and b) doesn't require a radical change, because by selection bias most transhumanists are going to be the kind of person who think life is fun in the first place.

Comment author: Rukifellth 30 July 2013 12:24:45AM 1 point [-]

Then Dumbledore doesn't require a radical change. His exact phrasing is "our next big adventure", not "our next new adventure".

Comment author: linkhyrule5 30 July 2013 04:29:21AM 1 point [-]

Right, but if he's tired of life, why does he want a next big adventure? At least, that's grandparent's point.

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