You're looking at Less Wrong's discussion board. This includes all posts, including those that haven't been promoted to the front page yet. For more information, see About Less Wrong.

paper-machine comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 26, chapter 97 - Less Wrong Discussion

5 Post author: palladias 15 August 2013 02:18AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (501)

You are viewing a single comment's thread.

Comment author: [deleted] 15 August 2013 06:52:52PM *  1 point [-]

So, would someone explain to me the exonerate/indemnify subplot? I don't understand the drama over the wording first being "indemnify" and then later changing to "exonerate" even after Harry makes it sound like Malfoy was pulling a fast one by suggesting "exonerate".

EDIT: I misread the relevant sentence. Harry originally wrote "exonerate", not "indemnify." It seems likely writing the latter would have given Malfoy room to claim compensation at a later date.

Comment author: thomblake 15 August 2013 07:36:46PM 7 points [-]

Theoretically, indemnity implies compensation which makes the person indemnified as well-off as they would have been before the harm occurred. At the least, this change could have later been construed as a debt owed to Malfoy from Potter.

Comment author: jkaufman 15 August 2013 07:20:22PM 3 points [-]

Malfoy: "Good enough, I suppose. Though to have the proper meaning, you should use the legal term indemnify rather than exonerate -"

Potter: "Nice try, but no. I know exactly what that word means, Lord Malfoy."

The word is "exonerate" in Potter's prepared text, Malfoy suggests "indemnify" as if it's a legal term that means the same thing, Potter rejects this and stays with "exonerate".

There's probably something tricky Malfoy could do with "indemnify", but looking up their definitions it's not obvious to me:

exonerate:

  1. (esp. of an official body) Absolve (someone) from blame for a fault or wrongdoing, esp. after due consideration of the case.

  2. Release someone from (a duty or obligation).

indemnify:

  1. Compensate (someone) for harm or loss: "insurance carried to indemnify the owner for loss".

  2. Secure (someone) against legal responsibility for their actions.

Comment author: Benquo 15 August 2013 07:36:21PM 6 points [-]

Indemnify applies to future evidence as well, and possibly to future actions.

Comment author: JoachimSchipper 15 August 2013 09:04:27PM 5 points [-]

Unless I am badly mistaken, indemnify would mean that Harry has to pay etc. if e.g. Dumbledore decides to demand recompense of his own. (Note that Dumbledore may well have similar power over her as he has over Harry himself.)

This is obviously much worse than just giving up his own claim ("exonerate").

Comment author: William_Quixote 15 August 2013 10:37:48PM 2 points [-]

Exonerate means hold not responsible for. Indemnify mean cover all costs incurred in relation to. So Lucious was trying to trick Harry in to covering any costs incurred by the Malfoy family in relation to this case. Harry obviously wants no part of LM's legal fees.

Comment author: Kindly 15 August 2013 07:09:28PM 1 point [-]

It's not quite that confusing: Malfoy suggests "indemnify" rather than "exonerate", and Harry refuses, and in the end it is kept "exonerate".

I'm not sure what the difference between the two means. I think in Muggle law the term "indemnify" suggests some sort of monetary compensation, while "exonerate" does not, but this doesn't quite make sense. I don't think it will be relevant to the plot, however. Just a minor detail to show us that Harry did his homework.

Comment author: [deleted] 15 August 2013 07:32:28PM *  0 points [-]

Oh, I must have read that line backwards. I thought Malfoy was suggesting "exonerate".

Just a minor detail to show us that Harry did his homework.

I don't know, it could be relevant wrt to the deleted line (see rot13 in another thread).

Comment author: [deleted] 16 August 2013 10:25:07PM -1 points [-]

I don't know why everyone is making this so complicated. Basically, the two words have opposite meanings. In context, "exonerate" means "absolve of", "indemnify" means "secure against". So in the original contract, the clause gets Harry off the hook, while Lucius' suggestion would change the meaning to have Harry still liable. He's just trying his luck because Harry is 11 and might not know big words.

Comment author: Kindly 16 August 2013 10:49:07PM 1 point [-]

Harry's not on the hook. The wording of the document is "exonerate House Malfoy of any involvement in Hermione Granger's death". Nobody's suggesting Harry should be exonerated of anything; this clause benefits the Malfoys only, and presumably "indemnify" would benefit them more.

Comment author: pjeby 17 August 2013 03:57:30PM 3 points [-]

Off the hook for the debt, in exchange for the exoneration. Indemnification would just replace Harry's debt with another form of debt.