Yet More "Stupid" Questions
This is a thread where people can ask questions that they would ordinarily feel embarrassed for not knowing the answer to. The previous "stupid" questions thread is at almost 500 questions in about a month, so I think it's time for a new one.
Also, I have a new "stupid" question.
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Is eating vegetables extremely healthy? How strong is the evidence?
Yes, Extremely strong - it's among the extremely few statements which are uncontroversial in nutrition.
google scholar -> vegetables health -->
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/70/3/475s.full
--> assorted references
Edit: I think it's more accurate to say that vegetable deprivation is extremely harmful. It's not like eating additional vegetables leads to additional health!
Psychologically speaking, it is helpful to think of eating vegetables as the default state which we actively deviate from, not a thing which we actively do to stay healthy. That's why I like words such as "sedentism" - it makes you feel like you are actively harming your body rather than passively allowing it to be harmed, similar to "alcoholism".
I was wondering whether fruits and vegetables were substitutable for each other. The article seems to leave the question open.
Did a very cursory search, didn't find anything professional. Here's an amateur meta-analysis that attempts to tackle it: http://scienceofmom.com/2011/12/22/fruits-vs-veggies-are-they-nutritionally-equivalent/#more-724
Methodology seems legit to me, the data is from a reliable source, and it also more or less conforms to what I'd intuitively expect.
Do keep in mind that this is nutrient density per weight, not nutrient density per calorie. How much of a food you can eat will depend more on the latter, and I'm guessing fruits have more calorie per gram then veggies (making vegetables even more important)
That is a surprisingly well done guide there. As someone who just today went online to check whether my (rather repetitive) diet meets basic nutrition guidelines, I am surprised to find anything approaching a thorough, easy-to-use presentation of this data. Everything out there seems to be aimed at calorie-counting or high-fructose corn syrup scare. It's almost as if the internet's nutrition websites weren't designed for munchkining your diet!
On that note, can anyone recommend a good tool, database, website, or whatever for helping one to make good dietary choices? I'm talking about things like noticing that I should be replacing kidney beans with lentils*, that kind of low-level thing.
*Made up example, I have no idea how the two compare.
This is because while the field of nutrition is currently at the point where it can prevent serious deficiency (a relatively simple matter of making sure all the important nutrients pass through your guts in sufficient quantity), it's not at the point where it can confidently point to the optimal diet for the average human.
Everyone agrees that fruits and vegetables are generally positive. Everyone agrees that heavily processed foods are generally bad. By the way, Calorie counting is a reasonable path to weight loss and weight gain (though there are other methods) - and everyone agrees that being over/under weight is generally bad. That's about where the agreement ends.
Tackling the harder problems of nutrition would require us to understand more about human metabolism, nutrient absorption, non-nutrient factors like anti-oxidants and anti-inflammatory compounds, natural toxins (never forget that being eaten is not in the genetic interests of most plants), gut flora, immunological function, and things of that sort.
Just to give you a sense of the chaos here: there are nutritionists who make a case that you shouldn't eat beans or lentils at all. These same folks say that while you are at it stop eating grains in general, and make up the calories with animal fat. At the opposite side of the spectrum, there are nutritionists who say that the optimal diet contains almost zero meat (see - china study). All this confusion is before you add in ethical complications about sustainable food and animal rights.
If you both these strands of advice simultaneously and cut out grains, legumes, and animal fat ... at that point you'll have to start to getting rather creative in order to get sufficient calories, and you're probably pretty far off from optimal at this point.
I could take your request and give you a professional nutritionist's dietary recommendations, but the nutritionist I recommend will necessarily conform to my own stance and you'd be foolish to trust anyone on expert opinion when expert opinion is so diverse. From your perspective, my opinion that the optimal strategy is to model your diet off of what humans ate during the paleolithic would constitute a random shot in a space of common schools of thought - I think Paleolithic diets have a relatively high likelihood of being better than almost all diets which became possible post-agriculture, but as far as you're concerned who the hell am I? Nutrition isn't even my primary area of study, and even if it was, taking the recommendation of a random expert is probably worse than taking the recommendation an expert who was recommended by a random non-expert
Anyway, aside from general purpose tools like google scholar, cochrane reviews, etc... http://examine.com is one of the most user-friendly primary source databases I've come across geared specifically to nutrition. Unfortunately, it's mostly about supplements and single nutrients rather than whole foods, and that's largely because we can be more confident when talking about single molecules than we can about entire foods. On a less empirical note, I've got a generally favorable opinion of the blog posts from http://www.marksdailyapple.com/ which clued me in to several things I hadn't considered before (offal & bones, Vitamin K2, etc) and lean on the practical side. If you prefer to listen to people who are prominent in academia, Loren Cordain has a blog http://thepaleodiet.com/ and several influential papers.
Great points - thanks!
How confident is the consensus regarding whether one absolutely should meet the basic FDA minimums for all nutrients/ This would be my first approach towards 'munchkining' - at least looking to see whether I have any deficiencies.
I'm not sure. You'll have to research each nutrient individually - each nutrient is its own little research project.
I'm fairly confident that the optimum amount of vitamin D is probably much higher than the recommended dose. You can take that information into account as you see fit when judging the FDA recommended doses. My guess is that they generally tend to be too low. This might be ignorance, or it might be a precautionary measure to prevent supplement overdose - I'm not sure.
Being of the evolutionary-nutrition school of thought, I'd say the first place to look for deficiencies are the places where our ancestors would have gotten more than us even if we ate optimally given the resources we have. That means Vitamin D (we're sun deprived) Vitamin K2 (we grow up sterile so our gut flora do not synthesize enough) and Omega 3 (grain fed meat is lacking this).
Further deficiencies would probably depend on your individual diet and physiology. And by the way, if you are going to put lots of effort into being healthy, be sure to direct a good portion of that effort into optimizing exercise regimen and stress regulation, both of which are probably more important than diet.
Most FDA RDAs are to avoid a state of deficiency. Example: If you don't eat enough Vitamin C, you'll get scurvy. So eat at least this much vitamin C to avoid scurvy -- there's the RDA.
There are a few examples of nutrients which are naturally produced in the body, but supplementation provides a solid benefit beyond what you'd expect from satisfying a deficiency. Vitamin D is a good example of this: I've been taking 10,000IU Vitamin D (~17xRDA) and I feel MUCH better. Creatine is another good one, where you will produce enough to avoid a deficiency state, but additional supplementation significantly improves performance.
The kicker is that everyone is essentially individual in how they respond to things. Some people react really well to a paleo diet (ie high meat, low starch), whereas some people respond very well to a vegan/high-starch diet. Some people don't respond to creatine or fish oil supplementation, and some people are markedly worse off without it. So approach the question methodically: Change one variable at a time and record how you feel.
Actually, the FDA RDA for Vitamin C provides enough of this (non-fat-soluble, and therefore very poorly stored in the body) vitamin that your reserve, at equilibrium, will get you through thirty days of complete deprivation with no symptoms. Which is nice, but means that if your intake is below the RDA but decently reliable you will still be fine. I'd be surprised if my intake were above 30% RDA on average, but I have never had symptoms of scurvy.
I second the "individual response" paragraph. A lot of people say they feel hungry and unsatisfied after a full meal of mostly starch. I feel great after eating starch but feel hungry and unsatisfied after a full meal of mostly meat.
I don't think that's true. As far as I know, they are largely based on normal consumption from a few decades ago.
There's nothing like having something to protect. Or possibly, there's nothing like having a science background and something to protect.
Every plant (and every part of the plant) is going to have a different micro- and macronutrient profile. "Healthy" food has a lot of micronutrients (ie vitamins, minerals) and a generally desirable blend of macronutrients (protein, carbs [simple/complex/fiber], fats [saturated, unsaturated, polyunsaturated {omega-6, omega-9, omega 3 (ALA, DHA, EPA)}] jesus sorry for the nesting). "Healthy" isn't a goal but rather a descriptor of things that tend to promote certain goals, generally weight loss or reducing symptoms of cardiovascular disease.
Broccoli has a lot of fiber, micronutrients, and a pretty respectable net carb vs protein ratio. It's pretty much always a good idea to eat broccoli regardless of your health goals. You could say that broccoli has a very favorable calories:nutrients ratio, which you might refer to as nutrient density. An apple has more calories and less protein, micronutrients, and fiber, so you could say that an apple has a worse calorie:nutrients ratio, and is less nutrient dense.
I'd imagine that most of the benefit of vegetables comes from the high nutrient density as compared to fruits, grains, legumes, etc. A potato has less micronutrients than broccoli and over twice as many calories.
Some very basic questions given my complete dearth of knowledge:
What are micro-nutrients and anti-oxidants? Why are they good?
What is the minimum quantity of vegetables a normal adult would need to get the benefits described? Do they scale at all with increased consumption?
micronutrients are a subset of "vitamins and minerals" that we only need in small amounts. Your body uses them for physiological processes, but doesn't make them. If you don't get them, the physiological processes they are involved in stop working.
Oxygen is a very oxidizing agent. It used to be a metabolic biproduct which was toxic to most life on earth, until one branch of the tree of life evolved to use it for metabolism. We and most other successful organisms are descended from that branch. Even though we've evolved defenses to counter oxygen's harmful effects, it can still harm us. Using oxygen creates byproducts which are also oxidizing agents. These often go and react with other chemicals in your body, in places they aren't supposed to. This is called "oxidative damage". Anti-oxidants counter this effect - usually by making the oxidizing agent react with the anti-oxidant rather than with important parts of your body. But it's complicated, and you can't necessarily always just isolate a bunch of them and swallow them. That might actually hurt you.
I would like to add that it's important to be clear what is meant by "vegetables". The word can mean very different things in different contexts.
Scientifically (in botany, biology or nutrition), "vegetable" means "plant" - all food not derived from an animal. But in colloquial usage, "vegetable" means a small and badly defined subset of that. Wikipedia describes this kind of vegetables as plant food that is not "fruits, grains, or nuts". (Wikipedia also notes a third "culinary" usage, where "vegetable" means "any edible part of a plant with a savory flavor"; I'm not sure what that even means - presumably the usage of "savory" is not the colloquial one!)
In colloquial use, "vegetables" are opposed to "fruits" and distinct from "nuts", "berries" and "grains". Of course, many such "vegetables" are also botanical fruits (like tomatoes), and so are all berries and nuts; grains are the seeds of fruits.
Many (most? nearly all?) of the benefits that can be obtained from eating colloquial!vegetables can also be obtained from at least some other plant food. There's a huge difference between a diet of only animal food, and a diet that contains everything except colloquial!Vegetables which are "not fruit".
Regarding culinary usage, I think that "savory" is being used for anything which does not have sweet or sour flavors as the dominant flavor. So, tomatoes, peppers, etc... are considered vegetables, while apples and lemons are considered fruits.
Whether or not tomatoes are vegetables depends a lot on the context.
Could be referring to Umami (most commonly translated as savory), one of the primary flavors with dedicated tastebuds in the "five flavors" model. (The others being sweet, salty, sour and bitter. Anecdotally, I forgot Umami pretty quickly after learning these in kindergarten, and no one I asked about it to try and refresh my memory could come up with any fifth flavor other than spicy (which is something different entirely); I eventually looked it up on Wikipedia, I think during my recent search for terminology related to each of the traditional five senses). I fI remember correctly, tomatoes are specifically listed in the wikipedia article as being high in umami.
A lot of vegetables don't have umami themselves but are improved by its addition (potatoes for example). I believe these would also count as "savory."
It basically means the kind of plants that you use in a main dish in traditional cooking.
You can use apples in a salad but you don't serve spaghetti with apple soup.
The evidence that eating vegetables independent of their micronutrient content is weak AFAIK. Most micronutrients have denser sources than veggies available. We also don't see indigenous populations pursue the rather calorie poor greens that are usually advocated. Instead it's mostly tubers, fruits, nuts and seeds that complement animal products.
Eating veggies with fats or oil seems to be fairly common. Anyone know whether it's anything like universal?
Is accounting underrated in most nerd circles? What would a transhumanist or rationalist take on accounting look like? Are there any good blog posts introducing accounting to make it look like an awesome and exciting topic?
The reason I ask is that as I've gotten some actual experience working at a software business, I notice a lot of time and effort seems to go into making sure the numbers add up. At first I thought this was largely wasted, but lately I've been thinking it helps combat many of the kinds of things we talk about here such as scale blindness... It's sort of like an intelligence augmentation that lets us tackle resource allocation issues we did not evolve natural intuitions to solve.
I don't know if accounting is underrated, and I don't know if anyone has made accounting look awesome and exciting on its own. But conditional on finding scam-busting interesting, which I guess a lot of skeptics do, there are several books on auditing, how companies cook the books, how to detect unethical accounting practices through various statistical techniques, etc. In fact most of the techniques are subtle because they tend to bend the rules just a little bit more than auditing professionals prefer. The rules can already be legally bent significantly because of how many different ways there are to operate a business.
I suspect that accounting is sufficiently well-optimized that a rationalist take on it would be a waste of time. Most of the questionable decisions made in the field are due to overlaps with the madness-inducing world of tax law or the simple fact that the future is uncertain and assessing an object's value other than through a cash sale is expensive. But double-entry bookkeeping and assets-liabilities=equity aren't ever going to change.
I'm looking over the table of contents to Intelligence Explosion Microeconomics, and it doesn't look as though there's any reference to what seems to me would be the most relevant topic of consideration to an intelligence explosion: returns on AI research. As I previously pointed out, an AGI that was just as "smart" as all the world's AI researchers combined would make AI progress at the same slow rate they are making AI progress, with no explosion. Having that AI make itself 10% "smarter" (which would take a long time--it's only as smart as the world's AI researchers) would only result in self-improvement progress that was 10% faster. In other words, it'd be exponential, yes, but it'd be an exponential like human economic growth, not like a nuclear chain reaction.
The empirical finding that when you combine the brainpower of the world's AI researchers (who are very smart people, according to a reliable source of mine), they get such low returns in terms of finding new useful AI insights, seems to me like it should weigh more than reasoning by analogy from non-AI domains.
(But even given this empirical finding, the question seems hopelessly uncertain to me, and I'm curious what justification anyone would give from updating strongly from even odds. The most salient observation I made from my recent PredictionBook experiment is that if a question is interesting enough for me to put it in PredictionBook, then I know less than I think about it and I'm best off giving it 50/50 odds. I suspect this applies to other humans, e.g. Jonah Sinick expressed a similar sentiment to me the other day. So a priori, the very fact that two smart people, Robin and Eliezer, take opposite sides of an issue should make us reluctant to assign any strong probabilities... I think :P)
Suppose experts' opinions were assigned by coin flip with a weighted coin, where the weight of the coin is the probability that makes best use of available information.
If we go to the first expert and they hold opinion Heads, what do we think the weighting of the coin is? 2/3. But then another expert comes along with opinion Tails, and so our probability goes back to 1/2. Last, we meet another expert with opinion Heads. But jaded as we are, we only update our probability to 3/5 - or 0.6 rather than 0.66666.
So, sure. :P Although this sort of model makes less sense once you start evaluating the rhyme and reason behind the experts' opinions rather than just taking them as opaque data points.
I don't really trust Robin and Eliezer to be well-calibrated about what they don't know. One way to become a public figure is to make interesting predictions, and both have used this strategy. So polling public-figure-ish smart people as opposed to smart people in general will tend to get us a more confidently expressed and interesting-for-the-sake-of-interesting set of opinions. Also, neither has a PredictionBook account that's actively used (as far as I know; I've recently been using a pseudonym and maybe one of them is as well).
For some perspective, my younger brother Tim is very smart and in his years of peak intelligence, but does not have the high status associated with writing a widely read blog or being a professor, and his view on singularity related stuff, as far as I can tell, is that the future is too hard to predict for it to be worth bothering with. You could say that Robin and Eliezer are authorities on singularity-related topics because they write widely read blogs about them, but they write widely read blogs about them because they have positive predictions to make. So there's a selection effect. If a smart person thinks the future is very uncertain, they aren't going to put in the time & effort necessary to seem like a legitimate authority on the topic. (If you want someone who's an authority on another topic who seems to agree with my brother, here's Daniel Kahnman.)
This poll of Jane Street Capital geniuses seem like an even stronger argument that we shouldn't have a strong opinion in either direction.
When any speedup of 10% takes a constant amount n of computations, you get, for the computational speed f, the approximating differential equation f' [increase in speed over time] = 0.1f [10% increase] / n/f [time needed for that increase].
This diverges in finite time. Where are you getting exponential growth from?
I didn't make this assumption--my model assumes that increasing the brainpower of an already-very-smart intelligence by 10% would be harder for a human AI researcher than increasing the brainpower of a pretty-dumb intelligence by 10%. It is an interesting assumption to consider, however.
Anyway, exponential growth is for quantities that grow at a rate directly proportionate to the quantity. So if you can improve your intelligence at a rate that's a constant multiple of how smart you are, then we'd expect to see your intelligence grow exponentially. Given data from humans trying to build AIs, we should expect this constant multiple to be pretty low. If you want a somewhat more detailed justification, you can take a stab at reading my original essay on this topic (warning: has some bad/incorrect ideas; read the comments).
Is there a name for a bias that causes you to ignore trade-offs and pretend that there are no costs to doing something, for example claiming that eliminating the use of chimps in medical research won't harm medical research because "scientific methods and technologies have rendered their use in research largely unnecessary"?
Probably an obvious point: epistemically that's an error, but politically it's probably an indispensable tactic. Say you do an honest and perfectly reliable utilitarian analysis, and find that chimpanzees really should not be used in research; the real substantial medical advances are not worth their suffering. But frustratingly the powers that be don't care about chimps as much as they should. Your only hope is to convince them that chimp-using research is nearly useless to humans, so that even their undersized compassion for chimps will convince them to shut the research down.
I have a kind of romantic suspicion that nearly all politically active people are like this, that if you could somehow get them alone and sit them down and ask them what they really think, they'd go, "Yes, congratulations Einstein, you figured it out. Of course if we succeed then it's likely the lives of [some group] will get a lot worse, but, well, omelets and eggs." And then they swear you in and give you a membership card, because if you've gotten this far, then you can also see that they're justified.
That would be nice. But if all the politicians were so rational, then why in the name of Aumann's agreement theorem would they disagree with each other so much?
Unless that too would be some kind of deception, necessary to achieve maximum utility. Maybe the average stupid humans (non-politicians) simply need to see a few battling factions, so if all these rational politicians suddenly stopped pretending to disagree with each other, the angry voters would vote for someone genuinely stupid, just to have more variety.
Well... I suppose politicians are on average more rational than average humans. At least instrumentally; this is why they are in politics, have power and make $$$, while the average citizen spends their time merely watching them on TV. And probably even epistemically; because I expect epistemic rationality to correlate somehow positively with instrumental rationality. And because there are some things that politicians must pretend, strategically, I expect them to be less mindkilled than they seem. And they also have better information on political topics. -- But all this considered, I think they are also prone to all human biases, just perhaps a bit less than the average human.
I think it makes more sense to look at the incentives of politicians. Politians want to win. They want to be reelected. That means they have to somehow appear to be better than the other party.
Most politicans also think about their career. They have to impress fellow politicians.
(Nods) that's really what I was trying to say, yeah.
Also it's worth an NB that the AAT only applies to epistemic agreement, right? It doesn't prevent groups from competing over resources: we agree that the pie is tasty, which is precisely why we're fighting over it. Of course if you're committed to fighting, then screwing with your enemy's, and partially-committed ally's, models of the world is a valid combat tactic.
The problem is that these kinds of lies create a viscous cycle. Someone who shares your utility function and honestly believes your lies will want to shut down research even in cases you wouldn't and will feel justified inventing lies (on top of the lies he believes to be true) to promote that position. Then people start believing those lies and so feel justified inventing further lies, etc.
I'd call it scope insensitivity, and if I was feeling snippy, I'd call it motivated scope insensitivity.
See also "sacred values", though I'm not sure that they're a bias.
Halo effect?
If I happen to have a deficiency or excess of some nutrient, how would I tell? That is, what experienced symptoms should suggest to me a change to my diet?
Symptoms of vitamin C deficiency: Slow healing of injuries, small mouth sores that don't heal, malaise, lethargy.
Symptoms of vitamin D deficiency: Fragile bones, muscle weakness or twitching.
Symptoms of iron deficiency: Anemia, weakness, sometimes pica (a desire to eat ice cubes, clay, or some other non-food item). They test for this when you donate blood, so you don't have to involve a doctor to find out if you're deficient in iron.
Other deficiencies are much less common (at least I don't know anyone who's had them).
Slight tangent, does "malaise" have a more specific meaning in this context? Google gives me "generalized feeling of discomfort, illness, or lack of well-being." which is unhelpful.
If you think that you might have an issue get blood testing. Afterwards you know if you lack some nutrient that the test investigates.
I recommend privatemdlabs. Much cheaper for many people than going through the song and dance of getting a referral from a GP and then wheedling the raw results out of them (GP's don't like to share info IME).
I'm about to start reading up on which treatments for mental disorders actually work. (Things like how CBT is significantly more effective against depression than most other therapies.) I'm also interested in things other than formal treatment that affect a person's odds of recovery - exercise, life circumstances, etc. I expect this might be a tricky thing to research, since the variety of treatments available indicates it's not a solved problem even within the psychology community.
I've never done this sort of research before, so I'm not sure how to go about it. What sorts of places should I look? (I'm a student, so I can get past paywalls - though I'm not sure whether reading academic papers is efficient.) How do I recognize a reliable source of information when I see one? What search terms should I use to find comparisons or evaluations of treatments?
Also, as a quick sanity check - I'm doing this under the assumption that most psychology and psychiatry professionals will be biased in favor of things within their own area of expertise, and that there's a significant chance (though possibly small - I don't know) of a medical general practitioner not knowing enough (about the field and/or the specific patient) to recommend the right kind of specialist. And so it'd be possible to learn enough by reading a lot that my knowledge could be useful in addition to that of professionals. Is this accurate? (No appointments are being put off because of this, I just want to make sure I'm not wasting my time.)
Short response: Check out the Cochrane Library on mental health. (Browse by Topics in the left-hand side, Expand, then click on Mental Health - as of just now there are 406 entries.)
Evaluating healthcare interventions is hard. The gold standard is a randomised controlled trial (RCT), published in a peer reviewed journal. But there are all sorts of problems with single trials, some of which you allude to here. It's a really great idea to do a systematic review of all published trials and combine the good ones to get the best evidence available.
Doing this well is really hard - you need specialist expertise in the specific area to correctly interpret the primary literature (the RCTs), and specialist skills in systematic reviewing (as with RCTs themselves, there are many obvious and subtle issues about how to do them well). And it takes ages.
Luckily, there's an international collaboration of people, called the Cochrane Collaboration who get together to do this sort of thing, and have been beavering away for 20 years.
Unless you have significant resources, you are unlikely to do better on any topic than the latest available Cochrane Review. And if you do have significant resources, you're likely to do well to start with it.
When a health issue pops up for me or someone I care about, I jump straight for the Cochrane review (and also any relevant guidelines and protocols, but that's a tier down the evidence quality pyramid), and it's like I'm getting a well thought-through briefing from the world's experts on what we currently know about what works and what doesn't.
I love it.
As a postscript, there is a whole field of healthcare informatics that looks at how to find good academic papers on a particular issue - I once ran a whole course on the topic (and related ones). The shortcut answer is 'use Cochrane'; the long spadework answer is 'search Medline'.
Good luck.
Wow, now I'm really glad I asked! This sounds like exactly what I was looking for. Thank you!
You're welcome. Glad to help.
I forgot to mention: if you have money rather than time available, there's MetaMed, which has personnel overlaps with LW, and does the looking-up job for you for a fee. See the write-up/pitch for it by Eliezer.
Not quite enough of it for MetaMed, but thank you for the suggestion.
I wasn't familiar with Cochrane; that looks like an excellent resource. Unfortunately, it looks like a lot of summaries haven't been updated in a decade - is this something to be worried about, and if so, is there another resource someone can recommend other than simply reading PubMed and doing your own meta-analysis?
On the more personal question of what to do here to get the best treatment:
You care more about your condition than any medic, and so are motivated to spend more time on it. However, a general practitioner will have much more experience than you in diagnosing and treating mental health issues in the general population, and a specialist in mental health will know more about their area specifically than you can realistically hope to. (Unless you have a very rare condition, have the background chops to be a doctor, and put in an awful lot of work - which some people do.)
My guess is that you can almost certainly learn enough to be very helpful in decision-making about your condition. I wouldn't bother with the primary literature though - go for Cochrane Reviews and NICE Guidelines (here's the ones for mental health), and recent textbooks.
(NICE is a UK health body that basically takes the sort of information you get from Cochrane Reviews about what works and does some clever sums to work out what makes sense to do in yielding the highest number of QALYs given a fixed budget for healthcare.)
It's not always an easy ride - some clinicians have a morbid fear of patients who have 'consulted Dr Google' - and not without good reason.
But if you go along seeing yourself as an informed patient trying to engage in shared decision-making, most are happy about it in my experience. (Though my experience is limited to the UK.) If they're threatened by you mentioning this sort of evidence, I'd take it as a clear sign to change (if you possibly can).
It also puts you right on the sharp end of the distinction between what's true of a population and what's true for you.
"Helpful in decision-making" is a curious way of speaking about mental health. In it's core mental health is about changing what the patient does and not about the doctor.
For a lot of mental health issues it matters whether a patient feels agency.
Don't underrate primary literature. Reading it can help you to build understanding of what the disease is about. There are a lot of details that get stripped out in reviews.
For clarity, I meant "learn enough to be very helpful to you in your decision-making about your condition", rather than useful to the doctor. (Which is not to say that it might not also be helpful to the doctor.)
Yes, absolutely - so for mental health issues it can be particularly helpful to learn enough about your situation and possible interventions so that you can be more involved in the decisions about them, rather than the locus of control lying with the clinician.
If you haven't picked it up already, Feeling Good is a very good introduction to CBT. Also, according to its introduction, studies have shown that reading the book and doing the homework is surprisingly effective at treating depression on its own, in many cases. But maybe you already are up to speed on that stuff.
What's you goal? Do you want to help a specific person or do you want to gather general knowledge.
A clinical trial can tell you whether a treatment works for the average person. It however can't tell you whether it works for a specific person.
When it comes to helping a specific person with a serious issue the correct solution is often about trying multiple approaches. If you try 9 things and one works you win.
When it comes to therapist, it's important to have good chemistry with the therapist. If you don't fell comfortable with a certain therapist they probably won't be able to help you even if the practice a technique with has studies to back it up.
Thank you for the advice - these all seem like good ideas. Multiple approaches is what I was thinking - I was going to find out what's out there, and start with the ones that seem the most likely to work and don't conflict with each other or add up to be too costly (for example, you can only do so many time-consuming things concurrently).
I have a specific person in mind, and am intentionally being vague about whether it's me or someone else and who. I know it's not very polite to ask for help with a problem without saying what the problem is, and I'm sorry for doing that. I was iffy about posting at all for privacy reasons, but I knew that good advice on this would be really valuable, so the best I could come up with was posting but giving minimal information.
In this case I think it makes sense to try some simple methods even if they don't have peer reviewed research behind them.
http://curetogether.com/conditions lists for most conditions the treatments that patients found useful.
I was also thinking this - stuff like changing diet is pretty easy to try out.
My personal readings on.. pretty much this exact subject .. is that there are a handful of effective drugs for specific - easily identifiable - problems and a larger number of drugs that mostly just calm you the heck down, and that misdiagnosis is a really major problem for both effective treatment and the development of treatments.
If you are bi-polar, then any doctor or shrink worth his salt is going to diagnose that correctly, and lithium will help. If you have a problem with a less clear cut set of symptoms? You are going to wind up with a diagnosis. Some diagnosis. Which may, or may not, be even remotely right, but now it is in your medical file, and all further symptoms are read through that filter. It is very rare that a diagnosis gets revised. This in turn makes developing treatments for mental issues a lot harder. When you are trying to develop a cure for a cancer or an infection, the group you test your drugs on will not in fact instead be suffering from fracking lupus. If you are testing a drug or other treatment for any given mental problem? Yhea, if you are really lucky, then half your test group has the actual problem you wish to treat.
You're probably somewhat overoptimistic about how good medical diagnosis is (look at the problems around Lyme disease), but it's plausible that the situation is much worse for psychological problems.
This is a really, really good point that I hadn't thought of. I remember hearing in an intro to psychology class that psychologists have a worse misdiagnosis rate (or rather, rate of diagnosis being changed later - not necessarily to the correct thing even then) than emergency rooms, but I hadn't thought of how that would affect research.
Per the vegetables question: what should I eat?
For what goal? Longevity, weight loss, muscle gain, ethics?
Longevity and cognitive performance.
Longevity: Consider "What kills people?" Heart disease, linked to a shitty diet and inactivity. So eat mostly vegetables, healthy meat (grass-fed free range organic etc.), and limit processed foods. Do cardio so that you don't keel over from basic activity. Cancer is a big one; avoiding carcinogens seems to be the only way to fight that. Again, don't eat much processed food, don't smoke, don't live in a high pollution area, etc... After that, injury from broken bones and bodily weakness are huge problems for elderly people. Do weight training to build muscle mass and bone density (and be sure to eat enough to put on muscle), as muscles and bones get weaker without a training stress.
Why would "organic" be a health-improving characteristic of a food? Organic foods tend to use more and nastier pesticides, contain less nutrients, and as a side benefit they damage the environment far more than normal food because they use more resources.
Edit: In retrospect, this is more a mockery of organic plant farming, not organic animal farming. The environmental concern stands, but they haven't done nearly as much laboratory-based genetic modification of animals(though we've done just as much with selective breeding, of course, which is why GMO complaints always seem funny to me), and I'm not familiar enough with organic livestock chemical use to say for sure that they use worse ones(though it wouldn't surprise me, I can't make that claim confidently enough to do so).
Could you give sources for these three claims?
I'm most interested in the nutrition one; the first hit on google is contrary.
Actually, what do you mean by "organic"? Your edit makes it sound like you just mean not GMO, while I think it's a lot narrower.
See for example this, this, or this - there are safe organic pesticides, but the most effective ones tend to be in the "shockingly lethal products of evolution" category, and are only believed to be safe because of vitalism myths.
The less nutrients thing refers to crops like golden rice, which has been genetically engineered to contain Vitamin A to help stave off 1-2 million people dying every year from deficiency. Naturally, organic food activists are violently opposed to it(sometimes literally).
The more damage refers mostly to the Borlaug hypothesis - using more efficient scientific farming techniques means you can grow more food on less land, which means we need to do less deforestation and can leave more land in its natural state. Also, remember that prices contain information - farmers need to pay for all the resources they use, and those costs are embedded in the price of the food. If organic food costs twice as much, it's probably because organic farming uses twice as many resources. (Admittedly, this does include resources like labour, which isn't strictly a "green" concern, but I like people, so I care about how hard they have to work on top of environmental issues)
I was specifically referring to meat, which has much better conditions than factory farming, and much better nutrition as a result.
But that's a gain due to free-range techniques, not organic prohibitions.
Agreed. My comment and thought process is USA-centric. Free-range doesn't really mean anything in the US as a standard for poultry, and nothing for other kinds of meat. Organic beef on the other hand has "Must have unrestricted outdoor access" as a required criteria, along with prohibitions on hormones and antibiotics.
Ah, if you're engaging in rules lawyering I understand completely.
Don't eat sugar. If you can avoid eating processed man-made sugar (believe me, it is everywhere), you'll by necessity be avoiding so much of the bad stuff. Do that and ephion's tips, you'll be fine. Expect unbelievable difficulty when reducing carbs for the first two weeks, followed by a health, cognition and wakefullness spike, followed by normal life with a little bit more cognitive stability than beforehand.
This is probably not a great forum to take nutritional advice from - LW many have human rationality down better than most but the domains of food and methods of thinking are far apart. For what to do, I would either do the research or trust nutritionists that aren't selling anything. Alternatively, find healthy people or populations and ask them what they do.
Questions about what the most instrumentally rational practice is for a task shared by all humans are not not outside the domain of human rationality. If it happens that lesswrong is as bad at nutrition as you imply then that represents a failure according to the expressed and actual values of the site.
It seems to me inconsistent to suggest that a random LW user can usefully "do the research" but cannot usefully extract information from other random LW users, some of which probably believe that they have "done the research."
There's a selection bias problem, the people most likely to comment are those with strongly held outlier veiws rather than the majority who have considered the problem and come to some moderate solution.
Nutritionists are a profession. Almost per definition they are selling something.
Some low-hanging fruit:
Avoid artificially concentrated sugars. Don't drink soda or eat candy. Trans fats are almost certainly bad as well, (but are slowly being replaced in most foods). Don't drink too much alcohol. (Also, don't smoke)
The field of nutrition is a mess, but I think the above claims are genuinely noncontroversial, and can lead to larger improvements than any other general or exotic nutritional advice.
The cortisol drop I got from using soylent orange probably swamps the actual nutritional impact on my health.
What has the daily cost of soylent orange been, and do you not get tired of the taste?
There's a cost estimate on the spreadsheet. With lactase and a scoop of whey I'm totaling around $2.80 for 1291 calories. But the cost goes up when I add fresh fruit or kefir or ice cream or anything else, which I do for variety.
1) Greens with good nutrient contents, such as kale, spinach, asparagus, or the delicious butter lettuce (but not iceberg lettuce, yuck).
2) Sulfur-containing vegetables such as onion, broccoli and cabbage (the Proper recipe for cabbage is to slice it into thin strips and saute it in sesame oil - try it).
3) Variety is good. Eat bell peppers! And some carrots! Have you ever in your life tasted fennel? How many different colors of "green" beans to they sell at your local market?
The Proper recipe for dark green vegetables is to fry them at high heat and then add vinegar (ideally rice vinegar and fish sauce, as in pad see ew). Otherwise they are inedibly bitter.
If you're cooking for yourself, try them lightly steamed first. There's huge variation in human sensitivity to bitter tastes. I personally have very weak sensitivity to bitter tastes. Your "proper recipe" would ruin dark green vegetables for me.
I figured anyone not sensitive to bitterness would already have found an acceptable way to prepare dark green vegetables and wouldn't be turned off them by trying my recipe (as I was by years of "lightly steamed" greens).
Note, though, that the frying should be quite brief and very little oil should be used.
What vegetables should you eat?
Dark green ones seem to have more nutritional content in general, but yellow, orange, & red vegetables are typically good sources of Vitamin A & some other pigment-like compounds that might not be in large amounts in the green ones.
Is creating all possible human minds a possible (assuming unlimited resources etc.) method of resurrection? Including all possible combinations of memories, etc., not just personality.
Can you say more about what you mean by "possible" here?
I think what I'm trying to get at is the question of whether a brain that is identical to yours is still you, even if it was created by brute force guessing rather than by studying and copying the first instance of your brain. (And also the equivalent done with uploads or simulated brains - I don't think digital vs. biological should matter.)
Ah, I see.
This topic of what is "really you" recently came up on another thread as well; my position remains that whether some particular future entity is "really me" is a judgment each judge makes based on what that judge values most about me, and there simply is no fact of the matter. Some people who knew me at 20 might not believe that I'm still the same person, for example, simply due to the changes wrought by age and experience, and they aren't wrong, they simply care about different things than I do.
The same goes for a future entity that shares my memories etc. coincidentally rather than causally (as in your example).
Me personally? I'm pretty liberal about identity; I'm happy to treat it as being preserved through this sort of noncausal link. That said, if we really do create all possible human minds (which would indeed require inconceivable resources), there would be a vast number of future minds I would consider to preserve my identity.
How about you? What has to be true of a future mind for you to treat it as a preservation of your identity?
My local library system doesn't have a copy of a book I want to read (Good and Real by Gary Drescher). Is there some way of requesting it from another library system? My other options are buying it online, which would set me back at least 30 dollars, and I don't know if I want to pay that much. Is there any other way to get a copy?
ETA: I just called my library and they apparently handle these requests for you. I'm going to leave question up here anyway in case someone else is stupid in the same way as me.
Or you could just take the usual option of pirating it: it's on Libgen.info (no surprise there), and it's even available through Google - the first two hits for
"good and real" filetype:pdfare the book (as is the fifth hit for just"good and real"!).As books go, you could not ask for getting it to be any easier.
I prefer physical books for pre-bed reading.
A printer could be a solution. Make a cost estimate. The advantage is that you could print just the first chapter, and then continue only if you liked it. On the other hand, if you like it, you can bind the papers and lend the book to many people around you afterwards.
Does the concept of utility map onto anything describable in terms of actual human neuroscience? I've often seen people on here (and elsewhere) apply the concept to humans, and I wonder how accurate of a model or abstraction it is. Does anything in the brain behave like utility? (i.e. reducible to a real number, determines preferences and consumer behavior, etc.)
Not that I believe this would work, but I have a perpetual motion machine idea.
I'm told you can convert between energy and mass. So first step, take a bunch of mass on Earth's surface, turn it into energy. Shine it as light up to a space station in Earth orbit. Collect the light, turn it back into mass, drop it. Collect kinetic energy, repeat.
Why wouldn't this work? Is there a slightly different energy-to-mass ratio depending on where you do the conversion? (Edit: I just realized this would give a way to tell the difference between "You're in an elevator accelerating upward" and "You're in an elevator standing 'still' on Earth" from the inside, which if I remember correctly you're not supposed to be able to do) Would the light lose energy as it traveled upward (Does differently-shaped space redshift it)? Is the answer the same if instead of gravity you used another force? (Say Earth was positively charged, and you converted negatively charged mass to energy, and back)
Yes. You do lose energy moving light uphill, even if you have perfect emitters and collectors.
I don't think you can do that. Photons have no electric charge.
Electric charge is conserved, so you can't convert only negatively charged matter to energy. You'd need some positively charged matter as well (ideally the corresponding antimatter).
Gregory Chaitin
Does this sort of uncertainty have any bearing on FOOMing? On the provability of FAI? Is the LW Omega related to Chaitin's Omega?
No to all of these. The grand claims of that article are overblown hype (as is so often the case with New Scientist), and credit Chaitin with too much, to the exclusion of other mathematicians before him.
Anyone interested in Chaitin's work could read his own technical book "Algorithmic Information Theory", but might also read the criticism of him in Torkel Franzén's "Gödel's Theorem: An Incomplete Guide to its Use and Abuse" (book, not online, but reviewed here). The business in the original article of the hierarchy of Omegas is nothing more than the already well-known concept of degrees of unsolvability, which dates back to 1944.
Short answer to your questions: No. They aren't related.
Pedantic answer to your questions: Yes.
If you knew the value of Chaitin's Omega you could calculate the incalculable. You would know the results of computations that should take an infinite amount of time to calculate. You could summon the proofs of any conjecture. You could simulate AIXI. You would have the knowledge of a demigod. Being a demigod has strong bearing on the subjects you bring up, and many others.
Chaitin's Omega and LW's Omega share the same name (I suspect) because they both refer to something superhuman. They are different sort of superhumans, however.
Löb's theorem and Chaitin's constant are in the same family of weirdness, so I think it is likely relevant, but not for a 'new' reason, if that makes sense.
The closest thing that we have in real life to the 'rational agent' concept in game theory and artificial intelligence are psychopaths. Psychopaths act entirely out of self-interest, without any regard for others in their utility function. Taking this idea further, it's easy to see why a rational superintelligence would become a UFAI - it is a psychopath. One thing that normal humans have that psychopaths lack is empathy for others. We have some degree of 'empathizing' in our utility functions - if we make someone feel bad, we feel bad as well. Our empathy does not have laser-guided precision, and as such is directed not just at human beings but at animals (and sometimes even inanimate objects).
Thus it seems that the best way to create FAI wouldn't be Coherent Extrapolated Volition, it would be Coherent Extrapolated Emotion. This is probably a stupid question, but why does the concept of 'artificial empathy' seem to get such little attention?
Being further along the psychopathy spectrum isn't all sunshine and daisies and rationality.
http://verbosestoic.wordpress.com/fearlessly-amoral-psychopaths-autistics-and-learning-with-emotion/
Basically, I fear you are committing a sort of "straw-spock argument" about rationality, where you assume in the absence of evidence that someone with more muted empathy must be pursuing their goals more rationally.
I am not; see my reply to niceguyanon.
EDIT: I see the point you are trying to make though, that psychopaths not only lack empathy, but also a large amount of rationality. I agree with this and in fact it has been shown that in terms of logic problems and so on, pscyhopaths are just as rational as normal people i.e. not at all.
The point I'm trying to make is that the presence of empathy can certainly do a lot to destroy psychopathy. This is supported by the study you linked.
This doesn't quite seem right and here is why; my utility function considers others people's utility function, therefore by acting rationally and maximizing my utility function leaves room for empathy of others. You only get psychopathy if the utility function of the rational agent, is psychopathic, most people's utility functions are not.
Yes this is what I said. Usually in game theory setups though, empathy is not included in the utility function. That's what I meant, sorry if it was unclear. You're right that an agent can be rational and empathic at the same time.
Then the game theory experiments leaving no room for empathy are straw Vulcans.
It's not just lack of empathy that makes psychopaths act as they do, but also what looks to me like a particularly strong drive for domination. They simply get more emotional rewards out of exerting power over other people, in ways that range from winning socially acceptable status contests to torturing and butchering other humans. Without this drive for domination, they wouldn't be half as dangerous.
Just pointing out that it's the presence rather than the absence of a feature that causes one to be actively evil, not just selfish and calculating. Merely self-interested rational agents would stop at callously pursuing whatever their, er, utility function tells them to. They wouldn't go that extra mile to satisfy a purely emotional need. To exhibit psychopathic behavior -- to play mind games with people, to break laws and to engage in power contests even when you don't have anything rational to gain, just for the thrill of it -- well, you need to be able to feel the thrill of it. An extra feature.
As for programming emotion into an AI, I wouldn't know about that. I have the vague intuition that emotions are a bit of a kludge-y solution to morality; our emotional system is mildly good some of the time, but not great and not all of the time, at getting morality right. A different emotional system, designed from scratch and checked for coherence, might perform better, though I don't have the qualifications needed to express an opinion one way or the other.
So you're saying that included in their goals is an explicit urge for dominance, that is absent (or weakened) in 'normal' human beings? I suppose it sounds plausible, but I'd like to see some references.
Most people have it to a small extent (it's a feature present all across the animal kingdom, after all), but in psychopaths it is exacerbated.
Sorry, no references. Just a speculation that seems strongly consistent with what I know so far about them.
Maybe corporations, nation-states, and other institutional actors come even closer? It sure would be nice to be able to add some "artificial empathy" to Nestlé et al.
I find it hard to give a useful answer as my comparison is biased by suffering serious depression/anxiety for the last few years. I am happier/less anxious than I have been in the ast due to some combination of medication, therapy and lifestyle changes, but I am still significantly below where I visualise I should be.
You might also be interested in some of the studies described by Daniel Kahneman in thinking fast and thinking slow on how people assess their life satisfaction when framed in certain ways, and the difference between experiencing and remembering self.
I'm usually quite happy, but last years was swamp by unhappiness due to multiple destructive earthquakes hitting my town.
What is your subjective experience of being tired? How does it vary with amount of time slept?
What kind of speed is normal when taking an implicit association test? I tried to take one, and I could go pretty fast when sorting only words or only photos. But once it switched to sorting both at once, I was much slower (I had to pause to think for each one), and maybe around 90% accurate at best. I gave up pretty quickly because the process of taking the thing was so aggravating.
Is this usual? I know there's something different in my brain that makes me much slower at certain simple tasks, and this felt a little like I was running into that again.
Is it a good idea to learn physics not from classical mechanics to quantum mechanics but the other way around i.e. from lesser scale to larger, to decrease the amount of things one needs to memorise and increase actual understanding?
No. You should follow an established curriculum because the textbooks are written that way, such as where mathematical techniques are introduced.
Memorizing enables fast recall. If you have to know it, you'll have to memorize it even if you can derive it. And there is very little to memorize in physics. You have to know that metals are ductile, but that's not a lot of information; you're not going to check it by going back to quantum mechanics. In principle, you could use QM to derive a quantitative version, but it's computationally intractable.
In the direct relation between quantum and classical mechanics, QM is simply more complicated: you generally start with the classical laws and modify them, so they are a prerequisite. I think that there is a recent QM textbook by quantum computing researchers that get to quantum weirdness with very few prerequisites. This sounds like a good place to start, but if you want to cover the whole thing, you'll need classical mechanics.
Thanks, I think I'm gonna follow this.
You don't get to memorize less this way. You learn from simpler to harder, not from smaller to larger. If you already know all the relevant math (linear algebra, complex analysis, partial differential equations), it might be interesting to start from, say, QM and then derive CM from it. But wait, shouldn't you start even smaller, with QFT, or at least with the Standard Model of Particle Physics, then proceed to peel off QCD and QED, then extract a Hilbert space from the Fock space and do QM, then construct CM and E&M... But that's not enough, what about gravity? Better learn GR, then derive SR from it, and Newtonian gravity as well.
I suppose it's not impossible, but the amount of math you would have to learn before you finally derive that F=ma is rather significant. In some parallel world, where every physicist learns a lot of math first, it might even make sense. But if you want to get some useful results early, and not spend 4 years learning math before you even think about physics, then you should probably start with classical mechanics and classical electrodynamics.
Thanks. Looks like that, although learning physics from "basics" is possible and immensely cool, it's also really difficult, so, I think I'm gonna follow ordinary approach.
That said, I had an instructor who started the first course in electricity in magnetism by writing out the Maxwell equations, then working through them down to the Coulomb's law and other special cases, which is the opposite of the standard approach. But he knew what he was doing and was careful to only inflict the minimum necessary amount of math and rigor on the poor unsuspecting suckers in his class. I do not know of anyone deriving F=ma from the least action principle at an introductory physics course, though it seems doable.
What is a good way to talk about 4-dimensional world histories. In particular is 'four dimensional world history' an adequate way to express the concept? I of course just refer to that thing which contains up, down, left, right, forward, backward and later and earlier. This is the thing to which preferences apply, as well as related concepts such as 'identity'. For the purpose of casual and efficient speech this seems like an adequate expression. Yet I have noticed that people who consider themselves to have high status in an area such as mathematics or physics sometimes like to jump on such casual expressions for the purpose of one-upmanship. I'm also somewhat idealistic with my own speech so knowingly saying technically incorrect things makes me uneasy.
There are of course advanced speculative physics theories which assume 13 or more dimensions and there are even some attempts to express physics without a 'time' dimension. I don't wish to deny such theories. Stuff is more complicated than I am capable of imagining. But on the other hand the universe 'adds up to normal'. There is a thing that looks kind of like a four dimensional universe for most practical purposes and that is what I wish to talk about. What I suppose I am actually talking about is "4 dimensional abstraction that can be mapped onto more complicated physical reality and which is sufficient to model the most interesting features".
Is there a better term for that which I am referring to?
What happens if you eschew the use of "dimension" altogether and simply talk about world histories, or chains of events?
Block universe perhaps?
How often do you think about death? (Not suicidally.)
I explicitly think of the goals of driving as 1) don't die, 2) get to destination. I do this because it helps me remember not to do dangerous things, and to not feel as bad about making wrong turns (because I feel like I'm doing badly at 2 but well at 1, rather than just plain driving badly). I don't visualize what dying in a car accident would be like or anything like that, though.
I think seriously about death of humans kind of often lately, but that's probably because of some circumstantial stuff lately. During more normal times, I think I don't think about death of real people very often, but do think about death in fiction sometimes.
(I also get the sense that I'm less horrified by death than is normal in this community.)
Daily, as it is part of standard Stoic practice (specifically, the technique of negative visualization, which I employ during before-sleep meditation).
Also curious about this. Have found meditating before bed can ruin a nights sleep and so am wary of experimenting with it.
Usually, when I mention meditation people have something like mindfulness meditation (or other Buddhist styles) in mind, but Stoic meditation is very different. You are in no way trying to empty your mind; actually it should be quite active.
The style I use involves replaying my entire day from waking in fast-forward with an imaginary observer-sage commentating on my actions, asking open-ended questions like "did it really make sense to worry about something over which you have no control?" or "don't you think you should have waited until you calmed down first before trying to talk about [emotional issue]?", etc...
It doesn't negatively impact my sleep very much, since it only takes 10-15 minutes and it has a definite end-point (just when my "ghost" enters my room to go to sleep) which makes me feel a sense of finality (if anything, I would guess this makes sleep easier).
Many many times per day in the abstract sense of living things that stop since I am surrounded by them EVERYWHERE and often kill them myself.
Still multiple times per day, in the context of understanding that my remaining time is limited and unpredictable and I need to make good use of it.
Every two or three days in the context of "existing is WEIRD, and soon enough I will no longer exist just like 25 years ago."
It doesn't distress me, except when dealing with immediate effects of the deaths of people or other organisms that are dear to me, or could be easily prevented from being worse than they are.
Quite often, in the conquerer's mind. Three shall be the sons of Peverell...
At least once every day, as a motivational tool. I even created a spreadsheet that tells me how many days are left for me to live, and what percentage of life is already behind me (based on the projection from a bunch of actuarial tables).
That wouldn't work for me -- it would sound like plenty of time to me¹. (And that would happen regardless of what unit I² used -- 1,500,000,000 seconds? That's a lot of seconds! 50 years? A year is a helluva long time! 600 months? Why would you² use months of all units, are you² trying to fool me¹ or something?)
i.e. my System 1/elephant.
i.e. my System 2/rider.
I simply use days, I find they are sufficiently short to be grasped intuitively but not enough to create a huge number. Besides, probably less then 17132 left...
That number isn't anywhere near small enough to trigger near-mode thinking in me, and days would trigger the “weird choice of units for this” memetic immune defence reaction (though not as much as months).
So are you basically unable to think about death in a way that isn't far from you? I wonder how much this is common and/or relates to accepting a transhumanist point of view.
Yes, I pretty much am (except when driving or doing something similarly dangerous). At least, not about my death or that of other healthy young people in developed countries.
(Weirdly, though, I do often think about stopping functioning before legal death. It must be a combination of having read the parts of I Am a Strange Loop about Ronald Reagan's late life, my girlfriend working with Alzheimer patients on a daily basis, my grandpa starting to show long-term memory loss too, and, er, my having read the Yvain post I linked to in the previous sentence.)
I hear that's quite common among teenagers, at least according to the stereotype. (ISTR an EY post mentioning that, but I can't find it off hand.) I'm no longer a teenager myself, though.
Not very often. Usually less than twice per week. [happens to notice mare-of-night's comment] Oh, yeah, sure; except when driving.
I think more often about what happens before legal death.
I used to dream I died about twice or three times a week, for years. But that was more than a decade ago.
I do think about how unbelievable it is that I'm still the only freaking sane monkey out of 190 million around me who signed up for cryonics.
For most people, cryonics is a terrible use of resources. I'm entirely opposed to deathism, but I'd still never sign up for cryonics unless I had, as a rule of thumb, enough wealth to pay cash for it. It's too chancy for me to devote too significant a chunk of my wealth to it - the opportunity costs are too high for the gamble.
Not often. Only when I hear about someone dying or someone's life being in danger, or if I'm arguing against someone with a pro-death view.
I know of ISBN for books and similar codes for physical media such as music or videos. Is there a similar code for other consumer stuff, such as electronics?
Universal Product Code.
International Article Numbers.
I don't know how widely they're used, and they're generally not as consumer-visible as ISBNs for books. The iPad I recently bought has a UPC barcode on the box, but not on the machine itself, and I've never had occasion to use a UPC or EAN to look something up.
What point is the "torture vs. dust specks" argument supposed to be supporting or illustrating? Is it just about being able to do the "moral calculus" or multiplication, or is there some some conclusion about friendly AI/singularities as well?
http://lesswrong.com/lw/ko/a_case_study_of_motivated_continuation/
It seems to be about flinching away from thoughts.
Not sure where else to ask but here goes:
Sparked by the recent thread(s) on the Brain Preservation Foundation and by my Grandfather starting to undergo radiation+chemo for some form of cancer. While timing isn't critical yet, I'm tentatively trying to convince my Mother (who has an active hand in her Fathers' treatment) into considering preservation as an option.
What I'm looking for is financial and logistical information of how one goes about arranging this starting from a non-US country, so if anyone can point me at it I'd much appreciate it.
If you don't get an answer here, I suggest trying again in the open thread-- this thread is old enough that there probably aren't many people following it.
Created a throwaway account to ask: how does one go about finding good porn on the Internet? I'm pretty innocent on this topic, I've felt awkward asking my friends what they do, and it's un-Googlable for a different reason than most stupid questions: too many bad or irrelevant sites want to show up in a search that contains the relevant terms.
There are a few sub-questions here:
If you have something to say about ethical ramifications or health advice, that's fine too. And for greater understanding, I'd appreciate advice explained in terms of possible consequences whenever possible (rather than unconstrained "shoulds").
If, like me, you'd rather not have your thoughts attached to your account name, you can make your own throwaway account, or you can PM me and I'll post your responses anonymously as response comments.
Given a low (I think) fixed income and no particular local commitments (apart from citizenship in the USA) (edit: and being currently located), how do I identify a good place to live?
Here's Kiplinger's top ten towns for cheapskates, though I'm not sure how useful this is for you (I'm on disability and living in one of those towns. I believe Saint Louis was one of them as well, and I think we have some LWers from thereabouts.).
If transportation is an issue, though, you might try finding a way to optimize for a bigger city where public transit is actually a thing. It depends on your abilities and the amount of your fixed income.
About $1000 a month. Not sure what you mean by abilities.
On further thought, since I'm in a low-density area, rather than looking for a place first it might be better to first improve my local mobility by getting a bicycle. Then I could see what possibilities it opens up, and either look for housing next or upgrade to a moped, motorcycle or car. I still don't really know where to start, though.
Edit: I tried looking for relevant ebooks on Amazon. I've found three, and from the reviews, none of them have what I'm looking for; not The Complete Idiot's Guide to Cycling (1999), Bicycling Magazine's New Cyclist Handbook (2005) or The Big Book of Bicycling (2010).
Edit 2: Every Woman's Guide to Cycling seems to have decent reviews; maybe I'll try it.
You figure out what's valuable to you (climate, nature, demographics, culture, etc.) and then filter places to live until you get a short list.
So there's no quantitative approach? If you've done it, could you elaborate on how you did it?
You can be as quantitative as you like, but you still have to define your preferences (aka fitness function, aka loss function).
There is really no generic advice -- some people hate winter and move to Florida or the Southwest, some people really like the change of seasons and move to the Northeast. Some people need to live near the ocean, some like mountains. Some need the high voltage of large cities, some feel better in a lower-stress pastoral setting. Etc. etc.
In practice most people are driven by job and family constraints. If you have none, well, figure out which climate zone you like, figure out whether you like large cities, figure out what do you want to do and where it's best to do it...
Thanks. So there are no common bad or commonly regretted decisions, ways people commonly get exploited, factors people commonly neglect or anything of that sort? (Also, do I really have that many degrees of freedom at ~$1000 a month?)
If so, that's good to know, but I'm still not sure how to actually do it. Is there a centralized list of housing providers, possibly one that can be automatically ranked by relevant criteria? Amazon pretends to do that with computers, but (last I checked) many if not most models don't have the relevant fields entered and so don't show up.
There are commonly regretted decisions but... it not unusual to regret leaving family and moving far away for a job. It's also not unusual to regret not taking a job far away in order to stay with the family.
Yes, you do have a lot of degrees of freedom at ~$1K/month (I am assuming you're single and have no expensive habits). All that it rules out is a few expensive cities (e.g. NYC, SF) and single-family-house suburbs. And even then you can live in NYC or SF if you're OK with living in a bad neighborhood. How high do you value security is one of items on the preferences-you-need-to-figure-out list.
I don't understand what do you mean by a "list of housing providers". First you need to decide on a region and a town (or a few towns) and then you can go look at Craigslist.
If washing with chlorine bleach fails to remove a stain from a piece of cloth, what's the next step? For example, my family and I have sheets with very old blood stains, towels stained by my father's brown hair dye, a white lab coat stained by ink from a damaged ballpoint pen, a formerly white skirt that turned pink from dye that bled from other clothes in the washing machine, and white socks that have grey bottoms. All of these stains have refused to budge when washed in the washing machine with detergent, bleach, and cold water.
Why cold water? Typically hot works better.
(cold is recommended for fresh blood because it washes it away without triggering chemical changes that cause it to stain (AFAIK))
My mom washes everything in cold water. Saves energy, I guess?
Sometimes a stain might be set and you won't be able to get rid of it, but I love Carbona Stain Devils. They make different formulas for different types of stain -- one for blood and dairy stains, one for ink and crayon stains, and so on.
Does that remove set blood stains?
I don't know but it's worth a try. It definitely removes blood stains.